This Week on the Uncharted Podcast…
Can the team sabotage a new doctor before they even start? This week on the podcast, Dr. Andy Roark and Stephanie Goss are tackling a letter from the mailbag. A medical director colleague wrote in and shared with the team that they have a doctor coming on board that has worked previously as a tech in their hospital. Should be a major win, right? Our medical director says to hold your excitement because only now that our new vet has been hired is our Medical Director informed that the team does not like the new vet. The team says they have a bad attitude; techs have said the vet has had rough handling of patients… but none of this was noted by our Medical Director when the new doctor was a tech, and none of these things have been addressed with the new hire doctor during their previous employment. Sounds like a management headache worth talking through. This is a lively one, let’s get into this…
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Got a question for the mailbag? Submit it here: unchartedvet.com/mailbag
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Episode Transcript
This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hey everybody. I'm Dr. Andy Roark and this is The Uncharted Veterinary Podcast. Gang, we have got a fantastic episode today. We are talking about something from the mailbag. We got reached out to. Somebody said, “Hey, we hired a new veterinarian,” and I thought, “Yay!” And they said, “I think the staff may already be trying to undermine this vet and she hasn't even started yet,” and I thought, “No!” And that is what we are talking about today. I am thrilled to unpack this and get into the head space and the action steps that we can take right now to set our team up for success. Gang, before I do, though, I got to get a shout out, I got to get some love to Banfield the pet hospital. Guys, they have stepped up and supported us in getting transcripts for both this podcast and the Cone of Shame Veterinary Podcast, which is the other podcast that I host.
Dr. Andy Roark:
They do it to increase accessibility and inclusion in our profession. That is a big point for them right now. It is something that they are doing for our whole profession and industry. And they've stepped up and put their money where their mouth was and said, “How can we help you?” And I said, “Hey, this is a thing that people have asked for and it's a big lift for us.” And Banfield said, “We got you, buddy.” And they have made this happen. So if you want transcripts for our podcast, we got them. Head over to unchartedvet.com. You can see all of our podcasts and you can see transcripts for those there. Feel free to share them and help us get the word out, but I just got to give some love to Banfield, because they didn't have to do that, but they did and it is awesome, so thanks to them. Gang, without further ado, let's get into this episode.
Announcer:
And now, The Uncharted Podcast.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And we are back. It's me, Dr. Andy Roark and Stephanie, over before it starts, Goss.
Stephanie Goss:
Well, that's a good one. How's it going, Andy?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Oh, man. It's good. I can't complain.
Stephanie Goss:
Good.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Except well… Oh, let me… Yep. Yeah, I can. Spring is springing all around me and it is gorgeous, but I am getting hit with some allergies. I just got the itchy, running nose and it's like, “Yep, I take my antihistamine every day and the pollen in South Carolina laughs at it.
Stephanie Goss:
Well, I am jealous of your springtime because we had snow yesterday.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
So I will-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… I'm very much looking forward to some warm Greenville weather, so I can't wait to see you guys because when we are recording this, I will see you in a week in Greenville for April Uncharted, which is going to be a lot of fun and I'm super excited. But I would take some spring allergies over the snow and rain that we have had here this last week.
Dr. Andy Roark:
When you fly here, you're just going to land in a cloud of pollen.
Stephanie Goss:
A cloud of pollen.
Dr. Andy Roark:
You're going to come up… It's like when you come out of the clouds, except it's a big yellow cloud-
Stephanie Goss:
Green, yellow, okay.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… And then you'll descend back into it.
Stephanie Goss:
Okay. So I need to pack my Claritin is what you're telling me.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
Okay. I'll be prepared.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, totally.
Stephanie Goss:
Okay. So we have got a great episode for this week. I am excited about this one. We got a letter from the mailbag that came to us from a friend and colleague that you and I both know and who has been a repeat contributor to the mailbag. And so I want to give this person an anonymous shout out, because they have given us several great questions, which are awesome and this is no exception to that. They are struggling with something. They are a medical director overseeing a couple of different locations and they are struggling because they have a new doctor who is going to be starting with them, which they're super excited about. Now this new doctor was a technician in the practice before they went to vet school, which is awesome, right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie Goss:
I love that. When you have somebody who comes up through the team and who works for you as a technician and then goes to vet school. So they were a technician, they went to vet school, they are coming back to the practice and this medical director is struggling because now that everything is set, and in motion, and the doctor has been contracted and getting ready to start, now they are hearing feedback from some of the team who has worked with this doctor as a technician saying that they are not a good candidate, that they have a bad attitude, that they previously were rough with some of the patients and animals. However, our friend who's the medical director is struggling because none of this was shared previously when this person was working as a technician and none of it was addressed with this doctor before they got hired. And so this medical director is looking at this going, “Okay, new doctor, they just finished vet school,” clean slate, right?
Stephanie Goss:
And they are struggling because the team is looking at it from, or some of the team, from the perspective of, “We have a history with this person and it is not a clean slate. We are not so happy about this.” And our friend is struggling with, “How do I reconcile those two things? Because in their mind the time to address it would have been when they were working as a technician and the behaviors were happening and now that time has passed. And now the doctor is coming on board and our friend who is a medical director is like, “How do I handle giving this person a clean slate to start new as a doctor and set the tone properly with the team when there are members of the team who are looking at it like this doctor coming on board is going to be the end of the world?”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Want to just… Quick side note, if you have not had the leadership experience of your team coming to you with something and you having the strong thought, “This would have been good information yesterday,” that's waiting for you. That's coming. “This would have been helpful six months ago.”
Stephanie Goss:
It's so funny that you say that because when I was reading this mailbag submission, I immediately thought of one of those moments for myself where I wanted to look at my team and shake them and say, “Oh my God, you could've told me this three days ago.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's like, “Oh, you're marrying that chick?”
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
“Bad choice.” Like, “Oh, man, thanks buddy.”
Stephanie Goss:
So funny. So funny.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
So yeah, so how do we start, right? How do we set this doctor up for success?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And how do we deal with the team's concerns, because they are being vocal about it and there are some of them, maybe, who are dead set that this is a bad choice? How do we change the tide here? How do we get this moving in a positive direction?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. So, okay. I mean, the first thought is, “Are you doing this? Yes or no?” And it seems like the clear answer is yes.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
At this point, the documents are signed, we have come all the way down this road.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I have a hard time, again I don't… Unless there is some specific information that comes out that invalidates this person, which it doesn't sound like there is. It sounds like there's some hearsay and some rumors-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… but nothing specific that was ever levied against this person or has been brought forward that would change your mind. So at this point, are you going forward or not? If the answer is yes, then I would say you're in this now.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right? And just accepting where we are and in making that first decision. You've got two options right now. Do you move forward with this person or not? And it sounds like we're moving forward with them.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But let's just verify that that's the case because if we're not going to move forward with them, then say something sooner rather than later. But decide what you're going to do. Yes or no, are we in this? It sounds like we're in it.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And so then the first piece of advice I have is don't get spun up, right? Worrying is like a rocking chair. It gives you something to do, but it doesn't get you anywhere.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that doesn't mean we're not going to do anything, but it means worrying for the sake of worrying and fluttering our hands and chewing our fingernails, that's not helpful.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think sometimes about the vet clinic and you see these scenarios, and the staff is all wound up, and they're all running around, and they have strong feelings, and let's be honest. A lot of times they have spun themselves up-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Meaning one person is like, “This is going to be bad!”
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And somebody else says, “Oh, my God.”
Stephanie Goss:
It's the Chicken Little, the sky is falling. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
It's contagious.
Dr. Andy Roark:
The sky is falling!
Stephanie Goss:
Uh-huh. Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah, and everyone says, “Oh my God, the sky is going to fall.” And I'm not saying that that's what's happening, but I'd say… I will say, I have seen that-
Stephanie Goss:
100%.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… a number of times. And again, maybe this is all warranted, it's justified. We should do some research and we should do some digging and be like, “What exactly are we talking about here?” But to me, it kind of feels like we never heard about this and now we're hearing about it now. And there may be some wind up, so look out for that. When I start to see stuff like this, I imagine the vet clinic as a fishbowl and you've got all your fish and they're all just going in different… They're all chasing each other around and going in different places.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And they've all got these thoughts and concerns and ideas and stuff like that. And I think the goal as the manager. When you find yourself in that situation or the goal is the leader of the medical director, or even just a veteran tech trying to keep your mind. I think the goal is to remember, to try to be the bowl and don't be the fish because you can very easily become one of the fish that's streaking around the bowl from one place to another, as fish do. Be the bowl.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hear the people, see the people, let the people move around and their ideas move through your consciousness-
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
… But don't tie yourself up in this and don't become one of the chasers or the chase.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
And so that's the first thing is, try to get some distance and perspective on this thing. That's my first sort of piece of head space.
Stephanie Goss:
I love it. I love both of those, not getting spun up and being the bowl, not the fish because it is… I laugh really hard when you give the Chicken Little or the fish starting around-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… The bowl example, but it's true. It's very easy to slip into that head space of, “Oh, well maybe I should worry about this. And this wasn't a thought that was in my mind two seconds ago,” but now it's like the world is ending kind of thought. It's really easy because we care. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
We care. We care about our team. We care about the job we're doing. And so it was really easy to fall into that place of, “Oh. Well, if I care, then I should worry about this.” And there's enough to worry about.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I've messed this up both ways. I've messed this up both ways. I have a hundred percent messed it up by getting swept up into the anxiety.
Stephanie Goss:
Sure.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And the chicken, and the sky is falling.
Stephanie Goss:
Sure.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And having a panic attack about… You know what I mean? About something that had not happened and did not happen. And didn't know, and was never a problem-
Stephanie Goss:
Sure.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… But it was like, “Oh my God, what if this thing happens? And it turns out to be awful and this person is toxic and they're horrible to the pets, and somehow we don't know about it and no one reports it and-“
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Nothing is done. And you go, “Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. In what scenario is this person going to be horrible and toxic and not live up to our standards of care and do so repercussion free and under the radar of everyone else?”
Stephanie Goss:
You're not going to know about it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And we're not going to know about it. And I'm going to tell you for a fact, that's not going to be tolerated. We're not going to… It's not going to happen here.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That's not who we are. And so that… So I've messed it up by getting swept up into the anxiety nervousness part. And I am also messed up by just crossing my arms and saying, “You guys need to get over this. This is… We're going to do it. And it's fine. And stop it. Just stop panicking.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's like crossing your arms and saying very earnestly, “You need to calm down,” which is never a good idea.
Stephanie Goss:
Sure. Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But I have a hundred percent crossed my arms and told the whole team they need to calm down-
Stephanie Goss:
Simmer down.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… And it is… Calm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And they felt ignored which ratcheted their panic up another three clicks because they're like-
Stephanie Goss:
Oh.
Dr. Andy Roark:
“And now the boss isn't listening to us. Oh my God.”
Stephanie Goss:
I think our listeners just got some insight to what an Uncharted team meeting could have looked like when one of us was in a state of panic.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. And so it is… But that's why I say the cheesy Zen thing about be the bowl.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's because you do need to… You need to not-
Stephanie Goss:
Sure.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Get sucked up into this. And at the same time, it needs to be a part of your thought process so that people know that you're taking it seriously. Because if these people feel dismissed, your staff-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… They will panic. Right?
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Because remember, a lot of the anxiety, a lot of this stuff, it comes from fear of losing control.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Your staff is panicking because this person is coming in and if they're negative, we can't do anything about it and they're going to affect us and they're going to have this negative effect on the culture. And there's nothing that we can do is the idea. And so it's a loss of control. And when you cross your arms and say, “Look, this… We're doing this. I need everybody just to let this go.” You can make that feeling of lack of control worse. And so to your point, I think when we move into action steps, giving the team some feelings of control is an action step that we want to take.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That is part of making this work.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. Totally. Totally. Yeah. I think from a head space perspective too, I think that there's got to be some mechanism, to your point, for people to feel that control and feel heard. And so, I would probably… It's a head space and an action step, but I would figure out how to hear them-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… And then tell them that you hear them, and those are action and head space. But I think it is really important to say, “Okay, this is an elephant in the room. I don't want it to be an elephant. I want to hear you. So tell me more,” and gather information. You're not committing one way or another, how you're going to solve the problem, but you can absolutely make them feel heard. And so I would… If our medical director friend hasn't and I… Knowing them, I'm sure that they have, but create the opportunity for the team members, particularly the ones who are running around screaming, like Chicken Little, ask them, “Hey, I want to hear more. Can you tell me more?” And gather the info.You're not committing to anything. Just hear them out. Make them feel heard.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I agree with that. The other part of it is you can often elicit empathy in other people. And I think that that's a good idea.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And so if this person is coming in, saying to the staff probably individually, when you're talking to them and just say, “Hey, this person has been gone for four years and they've gone to veterinary school. And they're most likely a different person than when we knew them before.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I mean, it's been a good chunk of time and they've had a lot of life experiences and they've gotten training and support and education in vet medicine. And it's very likely that this person is not going to be very similar to the person that you knew four years ago.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And imagine if that was you. Imagine if you went and you did something and you got training and years went by and people immediately held you to the worst thing that you had done or your worst days from four years ago or five years ago.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That would be hard. And so, again, I'm not discounting what you're saying, but people do grow and they do change, and this is where we are now. And so we owe it to this person to give them a fair shot because it's what you would want if you were coming back in and that's what I would want to give to you. And so we are going to pay attention. We are going to watch out for these behaviors because we know that there have been reports in the past and we're going to pay attention. And at the same time, we are going to give some grace and we're going to let this person come in and do their best-
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… And we're going to support them and mentor them and try to help them become the best doctor that they can possibly be. But I don't want to write them off before they've even set foot into the building. That just doesn't seem like a right thing to do or the way that we treat people.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. And I think the other thing too, is that even if there hasn't been a lot of time, even if they were working during breaks and they were there in your practice this year, there's a big, fundamental shift that can and does take place for a lot of people shifting from being a member of the paraprofessional team, into being a doctor. And I have worked with people who have gone from being a technician or being a CSR, working in the practice to being a doctor. And even if they were working in my practice this year during their final year of vet school, right on breaks or whatever, I still have the opportunity to say to the team,
Stephanie Goss:
“Look, their role is very different and here is the expectation that I have for them, and the expectation that I am going to set with them as their boss and as their mentor and the person who is guiding them in this process.” And I would try and talk through that with the team to say like, “Don't think that I… Please know that I hear you.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
“And this is how I'm going to create the opportunity for there to be change for this person,” because there is a fundamental shift happening, not just in the four years that they went to vet school. Right? Because we all change as a person over a four year period.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure.
Stephanie Goss:
But-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Especially when we were young in the twenties.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And the difference in me at 28 and me at 32, I was a different person.
Stephanie Goss:
Right. But-
Dr. Andy Roark:
I mean a baby at that time, that's part of it. But I was a very different person.
Stephanie Goss:
Right. But also there is a shift and a change that is happening in changing roles from a member of the paraprofessional team to moving into a doctor role. So, so I think, to your point, being vulnerable and talking to people about that and also reminding them, “Hey, how would you want to be treated?” is a really good way to approach it and talking to them about, “Here's what I am going to do to set the stage in a positive way.” Right? So you're making them feel heard and you're giving them some reassurance and asking for their commitment to buy into this process. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
And let that new page turn. Let's start over fresh. This person is a doctor and this is what-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… That looks like in our practice.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. And it just, in the back of my mind, I sort of articulate this, is… Well, two things. Number one, I'm sitting here and I'm like, “Man, it would be interesting to put all on her Facebook page,” and I might do it… But like, I wonder what percentage of people that you have seen in your clinic who were techs or assistants and then went to vet school and came back, did they seem like different people? And I would love to put that out there and be, as a poll and be like-
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… “Okay, think of people you worked with. And then they went to vet school and then they came back. Were they the same person, just with a white coat? Were they a little bit different or were they radically different?” I would be really fascinated. There's one in my mind. And it was a guy that was an assistant and he went to vet school and he came back and man, he's a different person.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
He was a laid back, funny guy and he went to vet school and he came back and not that he's not… Or wasn't wonderful, but he was no nonsense. “We're getting this right,” when he came back-
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… And I was just like, “Wow.” Not bad. Just a-
Stephanie Goss:
Different.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Radical shift-
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Over four years. I was like, “That's incredible.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Just different person.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But anyway, that's part of it is that I wonder how much of a shift people see. The other part is, it's just in the back of my head, that it's kind of rare for someone to work at a place and then go to that school and then come back to that place. And a lot of times people want to go to places that are different than where they were before. And it's also rare that someone has a very positive experience while the team around them has a negative experience.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
Think about the time that you hung out with somebody and they really liked you and you didn't like them. It doesn't happen a whole, whole lot for. The most part, if someone really likes you, you tend to like them and it seems to be fairly mutual. And so the fact that this person liked this practice enough to come back after they graduated, I go, “Huh.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That's just kind of interesting. And again, it just makes me wonder, “What was the experience when they were there because they liked it enough to come back when they clearly could have gone a lot of other places.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
What does that mean? So I don't know. And again, we don't have specifics on exactly what people said or things like that, but it just… I can't help, but roll that around in my mind a little bit of, if this was super toxic world, then I wouldn't expect this person to come back.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
No one's like, “Oh, it's miserable there. Let's sign back up.”
Stephanie Goss:
Right. Yeah. No, I agree a hundred percent and that makes sense. And so, I think that's worth looking at, and I also think it might be worth reminding the team gently, figuring out how to remind them of that too. “I hear you,” and not in a way that makes them, their concerns, invalidated-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… But I feel like if the relationship was so bad that nobody liked working with this person, that would have come out-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… Before this point. And so I hear you guys. I see you, I hear your concerns. I'm going to address them. We are going to talk about this. And this is, again, moving into action steps, but I see you, I hear you. And we also got to move on because nobody said anything then.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
So I can only work with where we are now.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And so here's what I can commit to you moving forward. Right? It's about, how do we transition that conversation? But I agree with you. I feel like, and we don't know, but I feel like if it was an awful situation or there really was something super concerning beyond maybe some rough animal handling, which… Let's be honest. I have worked with team members and even myself, what I learned in terms of animal handling almost 20 years ago when I first started in the field-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure.
Stephanie Goss:
… Is radically different than what we're learning now.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
And even in just the last five years, the shifts in fear free approaches-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… And low stress handling. And the changes that we, as an industry, have come a long way, in terms of everyone having exposure to those things. And so I think reminding the team like, “Look, we're all growing and changing, and this is all changing. And it doesn't do any of us any good to hyper focus on this. Here's what we can do moving forward.” Again, it's solution oriented. But I think your point is really good and worth reiterating to the team.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And when you do it one on one, or you're talking to a small group of them together and circling up and saying, “Hey guys, I've heard your concerns. I want to hear them.” And then… Because I want to help you. I want to come up with a plan to set this doctor off on the best foot possible. And I feel like if we don't talk this out, there would be potential that this would not start off on the right foot. And I don't want that. And I know you don't want that either.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
So let's talk this out and let's come up with a plan together for how are we going to start off, with a clean slate, on a fresh page and move forward together as a team.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I think that sounds great. Let's take a break and let's come back and let's do that.
Stephanie Goss:
Okay. Sounds good.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hey Stephanie Goss, you got a second to talk about GuardianVets?
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. What do you want to talk about?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Man, I hear from people all the time that are overwhelmed, because the phones never stop ringing.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And I'm sure you hear from these people as well. Our caseload is blowing up and the doctors are busy and the phones just don't stop.
Stephanie Goss:
They never stop. That is a true story.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I'm amazed by how few veterinarians know about GuardianVets. This is a service where you have registered technicians who can jump in virtually and help you on the phones. You can flip a switch and GuardianVets can jump in and take some of the load off the front desk and they can handle your clients and get them booked for your appointments and give them support. And it really is a godsend.
Stephanie Goss:
Pre pandemic, it was amazing to me how many people hadn't heard about it for after hours call help. But at this point I can't believe how many people don't realize that they are offering help during the daytime as well, which I would think right now is a huge benefit to practices because everybody is shorthanded. Everybody is drowning in phone calls. And so we talk about it. We've talked about GuardianVets a lot on the podcast and every time we do, we always get somebody who says, “What is that?”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Guys, if you're not familiar with GuardianVets, if you think that you could use them help on the phones or up at the front desk, check them out. It's guardianvets.com. And if you mention our podcast, me and Stephanie Goss, you get a month free. So check it out, guardianvets.com
Stephanie Goss:
Two workshops coming at you from our dear friend, Dr. Tracy Sands. Tracy is passionate about amazing teams, building an intentional culture of appreciation. And that is exactly what she is going to talk to us about. She is leading the first workshop May 21st and it is retain your team, speak the languages of appreciation in your workplace. She's going to talk to us and work with us on how to learn about the languages of appreciation, but also talk about how do they influence our team and clinic cultures. That is happening May 21st at 2:00 PM eastern. That's 11:00 AM here on the west coast.
Stephanie Goss:
It is $99. You can participate if you are not an Uncharted member. And if you are an Uncharted member already, it's free as always. And part two is happening in June. It is June 25th. It is also a two hour workshop, also $99 for our non-members and free to our members. And it is be a part of a happier team strategies to build an appreciation culture in your practice. So this is going to be an even more in depth look at workplace appreciation, but the actual practical, how do we apply it in our practices to find out more head on over to the website at unchartedvet.com.
Dr. Andy Roark:
All right. So we are ready to make a plan.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
We talked about… We need, we want to adjust the team's mindset a little bit to give some grace.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
We want to make them feel safe and make sure that they feel that their concerns are addressed. We want to set our new grad up for success.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
We want to make sure that our patients are set up for success and that we're not going to have these problems, which again, if it sounds like I'm blowing them off, I'm definitely not. It's just when we don't have specifics and people are talking about things that are subjective that happened years ago, you go, “I don't know,” again, “If I'd had that information earlier on, it might have affected where we are, but here's where we are.” And so how do we address the concerns in a way that's not undermining the new grad before they start and setting them up as… Put them on a house arrest their first day out of training.
Stephanie Goss:
Yep. Yeah, no, I love that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
So yeah. So, a couple of things that I would do. I want to pick back up on your point and the conversation about… This vet knows you guys and she still chose to come and work here.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
A lot of times you can diffuse some of this stuff by pointing those things out to the staff and say, “It's interesting to hear these concerns because this Dr. New Grad, she really likes you guys and she could have gone anywhere, but she wanted to come back and work here. And so she obviously had a positive experience and she speaks very highly of you guys in the team and wanting to be here. And so it's just interesting, you guys had a negative recollections and she obviously has positive recollections because she's enthusiastic about coming back.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And it's just a way to put it back and be like… It's when you're like, “I like this person,” and somebody goes, “Well, they said such wonderful things about you. They're a big fan of yours.” You're like, “Really?”
Stephanie Goss:
“Okay.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
“Maybe they're okay.” I am a hundred percent that I did a “hangry”… I'm a grumpy old man. I'm like, “Don't like this person.” And they're like, “Andy, it's so good to see you again.” I'm like, “Oh, Hey. You are charismatic. I do,” I'm not sure, I'm not the only one who's been like-
Stephanie Goss:
[crosstalk 00:30:26] Sorry for the things I said when I was “hangry”.
Dr. Andy Roark:
A hundred percent… Things when I'm “hangry” and then someone is just nice to me and I'm like, “I was wrong about you.”
Stephanie Goss:
No, I think that's totally, totally fair and valid. And I think… So our mailbag writer definitely is approaching it, I think, from the right perspective. Right? Which is, “Okay, I got to talk to them about this.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
“I've got to make them feel heard.” Right? And so they said, “I've already talked to them one on one and I've validated their concerns. And I've also discussed the fact that I feel like we can't hold somebody accountable now-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… “For stuff that happened in the past.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure.
Stephanie Goss:
And that is totally true.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's not that it wasn't reported.
Stephanie Goss:
Exactly.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And we don't have any information on… Yeah, I agree.
Stephanie Goss:
Exactly. And so they said, “Okay, I have this expectation that this is how we're going to set this person up for success and what that should look like.” And so I think from an action step perspective, I think that's a really smart approach. I think having the conversation, doing the head space work, having them feel heard and validating their concerns and then… Okay, how do we move forward from here? And if you lay out… We're not going to address things that happened in the past now.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right.
Stephanie Goss:
And we're going to start with clean slate and you lay out that plan and they are still… this is of the opinion that this is going to be the end of the world. Then I think it's a very different conversation-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… Because that's about buy-in and support and positive attitude as a teammate-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
That's a very different feeling conversation than someone who just hasn't felt heard and validated and who is not sure what the plan is. And so I think it really is important to be able to tell your team and know… What is your plan for developing a new grad? What does that look like? And sometimes it's providing the team insight because they don't-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… They don't always see what is happening behind the scenes. And this is a good opportunity for you as a leader, to part the curtains a little bit-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… And let them see the magic behind the curtain so that they understand this is what development looks like. These are the meetings we have. This is the structure. This is the kind of things we were talking about. And I want you to be active participants in that. So when this person starts, when this Dr. New Grad starts, if you have concerns, this is how I would like to address them. This is how I would like to know about them. Because I want to be able to talk about things in the moment. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
I want to be able to give course correction. I want to be able to say, “Hey, when we saw this case yesterday, you were working with Sarah and she mentioned that this happened with the patient. Tell me more about what happened,” because I want the ability to hear your side of the story. I want the ability to hear her side of the story. And then I want the ability to set her up for the best success possible by me supporting her as her mentor. And here's what that looks like. Here's what those conversations can look like and inviting the team to be a part of that conversation, I think, is really, really important.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I completely agree with that. So I think there's two pieces to it. There's one that is, “Okay, this is how you guys are going to give me feedback on how the new graduate is doing.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
The other part is even, “Can I include the staff in the onboarding of the new graduate?”
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that is really a way to… Again, because it goes back to these people don't feel like they have control and they're worried about this person coming in. Can I give them a feel of control either by saying, “Hey, this is how you guys are going to give me feedback to let me know that things are going.” And that may be enough of a safety break that they're going to feel safe-
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
Or they're going to feel like they have enough control. Okay, we have a voice. If there are problems, that we have a mechanism that we believe is going to be effective-
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
… That might be enough. And the next part is to say, “Hey, when we talk about onboarding, can we involve the staff? How can we have them involved in what's going on? Are we going to do rounds with the new grad and have the technicians come to the rounds as well?”
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And we're all going to be here together and things like that. And just say, “Hey, we're going to bake this cake with everybody in it together.” That's a terrible metaphor. I don't know. We're going to cut. We're going to peel this potato so that all the strips land in the same trash can. Metaphors that never caught on and took off. That's it. We're going to devein all the shrimp with the same knife.
Stephanie Goss:
That's a fun one.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I know. All right.
Stephanie Goss:
Reel it back.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. Reel it back. Okay. All right.
Stephanie Goss:
Reel it back in.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But-
Stephanie Goss:
No, I think that's-
Dr. Andy Roark:
The fact remains-
Stephanie Goss:
I think that's super fair.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. How can we get this in control?
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
If their concern is this person's going to come in and tank the culture. Hey, how are we going to communicate? And when we see behaviors, I think to your point, is important. I don't want to find out about them a week later on. I want to find out about them the day of. And let's be honest about what's probably going to happen. Right? Even if this person tends to be a negative person, let's say, they're going to come in. And most people are going to come into a new job and be on their best behavior.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And really try to be the veterinarian that they want to be coming out of that school. And so even though the staff is like, “Oh my gosh,” this person's probably going to come in and be their best self, at least for the first couple of months anyway, and everybody will calm down and then we might start to see some bad behaviors creeping in as we do, when people get comfortable in a job. We're just going to manage them.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But that's the most likely outcome in all of this.
Stephanie Goss:
I think the other way too, to actively get them bought in and participating in the process. The other thing that I might try is to ask them, “Okay, thinking about the concerns that we have, what can we do to train, not only this new person, who's stepping into a doctor role, but any member of our team-“
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… “So that we don't have to address these concerns, so that you guys feel like the education is there ahead of time,” and get their participation and help in creating, whether it is training or protocols to address the concerns. Right? So if they were like, “Hey, this handling of the patients was rough. And here's what that looked like.” Say, “Okay, can we get them to help in the training piece of it?” Because maybe Kelsey is a rockstar patient with naughty cats and maybe Dr. New Grad was nervous handling naughty cats when she was here in the practice. So how can we have Kelsey help demonstrate and work on that with her so that it becomes a partnership. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Sure.
Stephanie Goss:
And it becomes an opportunity for her to use her leadership skills and her skills as a technician to teach that new grad. I loved working with new grad doctors as a technician in the practice, because for me, it was an opportunity to work together.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
It wasn't about, they're smarter than me, they're in a higher position than me. I can't teach them things. I always approached it very much from a place of, how do I teach you things that you need and how do I learn things from you that I need so that we can work together?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. And that has to come from leadership. Right? That's not the technician being like, “Hey-“
Stephanie Goss:
No.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… “Let me show you how to do this.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It needs to be part of the onboarding process. It needs to be part of mentorship. I would even make that even larger. And it really depends on the team and what you're trying to do. But if you are one of the practices that has a learning focus, which I always think is great. If you want low stress handling to be your learning focus for the team-
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Then I think that that's a good thing. We've got a new doctor coming in. We're going to circle back up.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
We're going to be having some presentations on low stress handling. This is something that we're going to be prioritizing in our practice. We're not calling out the individual-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… At all in any way, shape or form, but this provides us a platform for everybody to raise their game on low stress handling. And then it also gives us a platform to have conversations if we see lapses in low stress handling. A lot of times what's funny about, say “rough handling”, is there's a lot of clinics that never do any formal training on animal restrain or animal handling. And then they say, “Oh, this person was rough with a cat.” And sometimes if you don't give people better tools and they use the tools they have, again, it's almost like we've set this person up to fail.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And get that as an excuse. And I'm imagining the best intention, which is this person's not trying to be rough-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… But they are worried about getting hurt-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… Or they're worried about getting bitten or they don't realize the perception of the way that they're handling a patient, something like that.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And it's just a lack of training, a lack of knowledge, a lack of awareness. And people say, “Well, they really… This is unacceptable.” And you say, “Yes,” but is it on them or is it on the practice-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… That never trained them and gave them guidance or set standards-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… About how we do this? And I think that's an interesting question.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. No, I love that. And I will say as a manager, if you are not taking the opportunity… Really, any time that you have a new team member, to try new things or to change things that didn't go right in the past and leveraging that, you're missing a trick opportunity big time there, because that is the best way to have a clean slate, is be like, “Hey, look, we have new doctor shorting. And so we're going to talk about this altogether as a team.” You're not calling out any one person and you have the opportunity to all collectively get on the same page and the team can get united over that reasoning in a way that doesn't happen if you're like, “Hey, this week, we're going to talk about fear free behavior.” It gives a reason for them to get bought in and participate actively from all sides-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… Without it being about, “Hey, we had this incident happen with this one person.” And so the whole team is going to get training as a result of this one person.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Right.
Stephanie Goss:
It doesn't have that same feel. It has this feel of, this is something that we are doing together to become better and-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… A better version of our ourselves as a team. And so that is definitely one of those things that, as manager, I always looked for. “Oh. Hey, we have a new person starting,” or, “Hey, we're trying a new program,” or “Let's take an opportunity to use it as a clean slate and start over.” So I think that that's super important and I think that getting them bought in and participating actively-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… In the process really, really is helpful too.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I agree. But I also really want to hammer on the point that you make, because I think that's really important. This is not something that we are doing. The whole team is getting trained because we don't trust Sarah.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And it can't be that. And I would just be up front and I would say, “This is not about that.” Right?
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
This is not about a new person coming in. I know that it is a concern that people have had. We are due for this. It seems like a good time. But yeah, this is not, “Hey, we have concern about one person so the whole team is going through training.” This is honestly where our practice is going and what we need to do. And it's something you guys are showing interest in. And so we are doing this together.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I think that that's really good. I think, in that same vein of onboarding the person, ask the other doctors to help mentor and support this person coming in.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And it's just getting other doctors on board, it's building a support network. People want to know what the expectations are and having other doctors work with them and mentor them and support them is a great way to just bring a new doctor in and to adapt them culturally to the practice.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's funny, every practice has cultural norms about how we talk and how we talk about each other, how we treat each other, the things that we do. And if no one teaches you those cultural norms, you're going to have to stumble around until you find them.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And we've all seen some awkward onboarding, where someone has come in and they've been awkward or they haven't really fit. And then, after months-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… They figure out what's expected and they get on board. And everyone just forgets the awkwardness of when they first arrived. But man, we could have avoided all of that. We could have streamlined that process by having some mentorship, having somebody take them in. Ask the new grad if they're open to mentoring and support. Ask them what they want to do to get up to speed. I would really stress… I guess, the way that I would take it is I would trust a new grad and say, “Hey, I know you've worked here before, but I don't want that to detract from the opportunities that you get to be successful and from the launchpad that you get and from the support that you get.”
Stephanie Goss:
Sure.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's easy to say you've been here and you know what's going on. I don't think that's fair to you. I think that that's short changing you in opportunities that you should have.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that's how I would phrase it, but I wouldn't allow the person just to slip in and go straight back to what they've always done.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
I would really push them into being mentored and supported.
Stephanie Goss:
And in that same vein, the other thing that I would do is call out that elephant in the room with the doctor in the sense that I would ask them, “Hey, coming into a practice that you have worked in before and working with team members that you have worked with before, is there anything that you are thinking about or worried about or feeling challenged by stepping into this environment?” Because you're not walking into a brand new practice where you don't know anybody. Right?
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
Call out the elephant in the room and ask them the same way that you're asking the team members who are voicing the concerns. “Hey, tell me more.” Ask Dr. New Grad because maybe she has some concerns of her own and maybe she'll acknowledge it. Maybe she's got some things that she's thinking about.
Stephanie Goss:
And again, this goes back to where we started in terms of the info gathering. It wouldn't be fair to have that conversation with the technicians who are voicing the concerns and not also have a similar conversation with Dr. New Grad. You don't have to say, “I had a conversation with some of the technicians. They brought up these concerns.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
This is where those mind tricks come in handy, those tools. But to say to them, “Hey, I want to make sure that you get to start off to your point, Andy, from a good launchpad.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And you've worked in this practice. This is not your first time here. I don't want to assume. I don't want the team to assume that we're starting from a different place than we actually are. And I want it to be a clean slate for you. So is there anything that you're concerned about or any thoughts or challenges, worries, whatever. Let's talk about it.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And just have an opening conversation.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. How can I help you? And then there's the flip to that, which is, “Hey, so you are coming in as a new doctor and here's how you can help me. You are a leader in the practice now. And I really want to make sure that we have a strong, positive culture and I need your help-“
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… “As a leader in the practice, can you help me build a positive workplace, be supportive of the staff? I really need you to cheerlead for me and help keep morale up. And that's what I'm looking for, for a new doctor joining our team.” Remember relationships are a two way street.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Andy Roark:
But you can frame this as what support do you need from me? And maybe they'll throw you a bone, right?
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Maybe they'll give you what you need or if… even if they do or whether they don't, they say, “Here. Let me ask you for help, because this is what I need help with and this is what I'm looking for from you. This is how you can help me. I want to have a positive, supportive culture here. And my doctors have got to be positive, supportive culture leaders. And you can always bring me concerns and you can always voice your struggles, but I do need us to be… but it would help me greatly if you led the culture charge on the ground.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And a lot of times it's amazing. When you ask someone and say, “Hey, can you help me with this? Will you lead this charge?” They will.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And even people who may have a tendency to be a bit negative, if you say, “This is what I'm struggling with-“
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark:
… “Can you help me in this way?” They say yes.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And then you're just opening the door to giving them feedback later on very gently. And so when, if you start to hear negativity, things like that, you're not saying, “Hey, I need to talk to you about your negativity.” You're saying, “Hey, remember when you came on, I was asking for help and that trying to build a positive and supportive workplace is the number one thing for me.” And so, “I'm starting to see these behaviors,” or “I'm feeling like that's slipping. And I just wanted to bring it to your attention and ask you about it.” And it's, again, by just laying that expectation, asking for help at the beginning, hopefully you'll never need to do that.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Hopefully the person will come in and they'll be positive and happy and everything will go great. And all of this will fade in the rear view and nobody will even remember that it was a consideration five years ago. It's laying some groundwork before you need it is never a bad idea.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-mm (negative). Mm-mm (negative). No, I love that.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I mean, that's about it.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
For me, the last thing is just go back to… Don't get wound up. Resist the urge to jump ahead.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that is the one thing, and it can be sort of frustrating is… And this is where it gets sort of unfair to a person, is if we make preconceived notions about someone and they walk in and do some small thing.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And everybody flies to 11.
Stephanie Goss:
Yep.
Dr. Andy Roark:
That can be frustrating. That can be hard. The best thing is to hope that doesn't happen and try to prime the situation by asking about positivity. I… Yeah. I've just seen that a lot.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
It's confirmation bias.
Stephanie Goss:
Yep.
Dr. Andy Roark:
People, they'll make a preconceived judgment about someone. And then as soon as that person does or says anything that sounds supportive of that bias, people will jump on it and go, “Yep. I knew it. I knew it.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And again, that's a bias and it's a pain in the rear to manage against, but just be aware that it is there. And, again, we'll work through it. But the big thing I would say to you as a leader is everybody should get treated fairly. And also in our standards should be upheld. And so the big things I say to the staff is, “Hey, you know the process. You know how this goes. Everybody gets treated fairly. We're going to work through the process and we're going to manage what comes,” and one of the big things that I've said to you guys, Stephanie, and the team is, “We'll come to a place where we don't know what's going to happen.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
You know what I mean? Or “We're making big changes in the organization,” or “We're doing different things.” And I've just found for me, the only promise that I can make for my team is to say, “You guys know I want you to be happy and if something breaks, we're going to fix it.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that's all I can promise you. And I've found that to be well received, but I think it's probably only well received if you actually do your best to fix it.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. And knowing our friend, I know that this is the case and I would agree with you. And I would think the last thing would be… I would probably ask the technicians whether you do it one on one with them individually, or if there's two or three of them that are really having some concerns, just saying to them, “Hey guys, I need your help. I want this to be successful. I want you to be successful. I want you to be able to build a good relationship with Dr. New Grad as a doctor moving forward. I want you to be able to help teach her and lead, and I want this to be successful. Here's what I need from you.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And then just ask them for what you need. Talk about the fact that you need them to be open minded.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
That you want them to assume good intent and tell them what that means to you-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
… And ask for their participation, because then you can have an accountability conversation with them as you go if there really are concerns to your point, Andy, addressing their concerns.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
So if things happen and there are concerns with Dr. New Grad, talking it out and addressing it quickly and not ignoring their concerns, but also from their perspective, asking them for their help and support. And if they go to that place of like, “Yep. See, I knew this is what was going to happen.” Say, “Remember I asked for your help. This is an example of where I feel when you say this, it makes me feel like you're not actively on board and trying to help me. I need you to change your attitude. I need you to-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Stephanie Goss:
… “Change the words that you're using, the tone that you're using,” whatever it is that is frustrating, right? Because we are humans. And by nature, we are going to change. We are going to slip up when we're changing our habits. And they are thinking about this person in one way, and you are asking them to change that habit. And you're asking them to have a fresh start. They're probably going to slip up. There's probably going to be something that happens that sets one of them off. And having the follow up conversation becomes easier when you've had the conversation and laid the groundwork to start and say, “Hey, I need your help. I would like you to get on board with me and this is what I need for that to happen.”
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
It becomes easier to have those follow up conversations.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Yeah. I completely agree. So, yeah. Awesome, man.
Stephanie Goss:
Oh. This was-
Dr. Andy Roark:
Thanks for talking through this with me.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah. This was a good one. I hope that I hope that our listener friend finds it helpful and yeah, have a fantastic rest of the week, everybody.
Dr. Andy Roark:
Awesome. See you, everybody.
Stephanie Goss:
Take care.
Dr. Andy Roark:
And that is our episode is what we got. I hope you got something out of it. I hope you enjoyed it. I always love these conversations, man. Stephanie Goss is amazing. She is the best. Guys, I don't have anything else for you. Take care of yourselves. Be well, take care of your team. Remember you can't make people happy, but you do have the ability to make positive differences in the day of the people around you, just with a kind word and a smile. Just be the person that you would want to work next to. I think that's… I want to leave us with that because man, it was shown to me again today that we may not all have a ton of power, but we've got power to influence the people around us for good, or for ill. And hey, let's just do some good. All right guys. That's enough of that. Take care of yourselves. I'll talk to you soon.
