This week on the Uncharted Podcast…
Stephanie Goss is joined this week by Nicole Clausen of Veterinary Care Logistics. These days, it feels like the whole world is on backorder. Both Stephanie and Nicole are shocked and surprised regularly, at how many practices they talk to that have absolutely ZERO plan for what to do when things run out and aren’t available. In this episode, we are going to laugh, nerd out about inventory, practice management software, and home delivery/online pharmacies. We are going to discuss what we can do at the moment things run out (because even with the best systems in the world, humans happen). And best of all, we discuss what we can do to prepare for the future to minimize the impact of backorders on our patients, clients, and teams. Let’s get into this…
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Episode Transcript
This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.
Stephanie Goss:
Hey, everybody, I am Stephanie Goss. And this is another episode of The Uncharted Podcast. This week on the podcast, I am without my partner in crime, Dr. Andy Roark, but don't worry, he will be back better than ever for our next episode. And I have a fantastic special guest with me this week, and I'm excited to introduce her to you, we'll get into that in just one second.
Stephanie Goss:
But first, I have to say a big huge thank you to our friends at Vetsource. This episode is sponsored by Vetsource, which means it is coming to you ad-free. An online pharmacy can be a very important tool in your inventory toolbox. We know that it makes sense because we're going to be talking about inventory today.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, Vetsource has a very special offer for our Uncharted Podcast listeners. If you schedule a consultative call to learn more about how Vetsource can help you, you're going to head over to the link that they put together just for our listeners, which is vetsource.com/unchartedpodcast. The first 10 practices to schedule a call will receive an additional $50 GrubHub gift certificate, which is awesome.
Stephanie Goss:
So, thanks to the team at Vetsource for bringing this to us ad free today. And I also want to give a huge shout out to our friends at Banfield Pet Hospital. They stepped up to the plate in a big way and are making our podcast more accessible to the entire veterinary community by providing transcripts for every episode of both our Uncharted Podcast and the Cone of Shame Podcast for 2022. This falls right smack in the middle of their wheelhouse of striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession.
Stephanie Goss:
So, if you would like to learn more about equity, inclusion, and diversity at Banfield or to check out our transcripts, you can head over to the blog at unchartedvet.com/blog. You'll see the transcripts and there's some links that will get you over to find out more information about what Banfield is doing for E, I and D in the veterinary community.
Stephanie Goss:
And now, let's get into this episode. And now, The Uncharted Podcast.
Stephanie Goss:
Welcome back, everybody. I am Stephanie Goss. And once again, I am without my usual partner in crime, Dr. Andy Roark. However, I have a very fun and exciting guest here with me today. I have Nicole Clausen with me. And for those of you guys who don't know, Nicole, she is a super inventory nerd, which is what attracted me to her in the first place.
Stephanie Goss:
I love how much she is passionate about inventory, and about practice management systems. And really, about helping the profession figure out one of those things that seems to perplex people and practices over and over again. Welcome, Nicole.
Nicole Clausen:
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm excited about this episode.
Stephanie Goss:
I am so excited that you are here. So, I met Nicole, I don't even know how we actually met. But I knew of you for a really long time because I was manager who worked with AVImark, and did a lot of stuff in things. And I remember when I started working with other practices, there were not a lot of resources for getting the inventory beast. That is AVImark's inventory segment setup. And I remember you were doing some awesome stuff.
Stephanie Goss:
And it was so great to be able to look at what you were doing. And you've always been great about sharing resource information outwardly in our space, which I so admire. And so, tell us a little bit about why you started your company because you actually left practice to go all in on helping people with inventory. So, tell us a little bit about what that journey looked like for you.
Nicole Clausen:
Sure. So, and almost coming up on five years now, which is just crazy to think about. But so, when I very first started managing inventory, my inventory training was very, very limited. So, we're talking my training and look like, “Oh, when you shake a bottle and it feels low, you order it.” And that was basically the extension.
Stephanie Goss:
It's so funny. So, that's the training that we get.
Nicole Clausen:
When we started the whole, work for the best. So, to call me inventory manager in the beginning was being very generous. And I just remember feeling like, I like to be a person who knows what I'm doing. And I did not know what I was doing. And so, it made me very uncomfortable.
Nicole Clausen:
And I was brand new to practice, brand new to inventory. And so, basically, I was on the struggle bus. And this was before Facebook groups were a thing. And I was living in Montana fairly like isolated know from other people in Vet Med outside of my practice.
Nicole Clausen:
And so, basically, I just started learning everything that I could. And so, I started developing these systems in my inventory, and it was working pretty well. And I started, other local area practices would ask me for questions, et cetera. And then, I actually, had an NWA rep who asked me to speak to a practice managers group, about inventory.
Nicole Clausen:
And I just remember thinking to that, and I was like, “Oh, my word.” It just lit my soul on fire. I was like, “This is what I'm supposed to be doing is just helping people and educating them. And just seeing those light bulb moments go off, I just feel like I live for those light bulb moments. And I started doing just some speaking, and then it very quickly grew where people were asking me to come in and consult, and it's like, “Oh, yeah, I'll just do like a local area, Montana practices.” But I started going multiples very quickly.
Nicole Clausen:
And it's just evolved since then. But I think, my guiding light in my founding principle has always been, I want other inventory managers to feel like they have somebody in their corner because it can be such a lonely role because there's usually only one inventory manager in a practice. And then, on top of that, there's not a lot of training and resources out there.
Nicole Clausen:
And then, to compound it by, I think, Vet Med in general is fairly thankless, but especially as an inventory manager, because no one is ever like, “Oh, my gosh, thank you so much for having what we needed for this procedure today. You are the best.” So…
Stephanie Goss:
Isn't that the truth? Thank you so much for having those bottles of Rimadyl on the shelf? I appreciate you.” That is a thing that never happened.
Nicole Clausen:
No, I don't think I've ever heard that. So, I just wanted to be like, they are and feel even if like one person, if I could help one person feel like they had somebody in their corner. I feel like, I achieved my goal. So, that's how I got started.
Stephanie Goss:
You have definitely achieved your goal, because I know that you have helped a multitude of people beyond one person. Now, you have an open community on Facebook, which actually, I was just recently, did a podcast with Jen Galvin, and we're talking about inventory. And we were talking about the Facebook group, actually, and talking about how great it is that we have so many more Facebook groups in the veterinary community. I'm going to date myself here.
Stephanie Goss:
But I remember when I started in veterinary medicine, and the only online resource for people who were not doctors was the SPN, which has been support staff program.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And that was it. And it took me the longest time to find that because that was all that was out there. And online wasn't an option. And I feel like, one of the things that I appreciate as negative a black hole social media can be, one of the things that I do appreciate about Facebook is the ability to connect with people in our field.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, I'm an active member in your veterinary inventory group on there, and I love seeing people be able to reach out not only to you, who is someone who has gotten training and has a really solid foundation, obviously, on how to do inventory. But to each other, to ask those questions like, “Hey, are you having this problem? Hey, has anybody found anywhere to get this, because I asked my two regular distributors and this is on backorder and I really need this thing?”
Stephanie Goss:
It's like, those day-to-day questions where we used to be so isolated and used to maybe, call the practice down the street, or phone a friend and ask somebody you knew. But that was really, where it ended for a lot of us. And so, I love the space that you have made for people to be able to connect, and be able to talk to each other about that kind of stuff.
Nicole Clausen:
Thank you. I love the Facebook group, and I feel like there is just so many cool people in there. And I just love seeing that med has its problems, right? But there, I just love seeing just the amount of people that are so willing to help, and so giving, and so gracious, and so just willing to help people no matter what. I think, it's so great about so many people in Vet Med is just that spirit of giving and generosity. And so, I just love seeing the connections and all the growing and learning that's happening is so cool to witness.
Stephanie Goss:
Totally. Speaking of backorders, when you and I were talking about, we got nerdy together for a second over email, we're like, there's so many things that we would have fun talking about together. And one of those things that immediately stuck out to me was the idea of, what are some strategies for navigating backorder? And when you threw that out, I was like, “Yes,” because it feels like the whole world is on backorder right now.
Stephanie Goss:
I walk into the grocery store, and the shelves are half empty. You can't… I'm constantly getting, “This is out of stock,” alerts on all my auto-ship stuff with Amazon. It's not just us in veterinary medicine, and I know how frustrated I have been in the recent past with things being on backorder for the clinic. And I know that I'm not alone. I hear it regularly in the Uncharted community. I see it regularly in the inventory nerd group on Facebook. I see it in our manager groups that you and I are both in. Everybody's like, “This thing is on backorder.”
Stephanie Goss:
And the frustrating part, I think, for a lot of us is that, for a long time, something would go on backorder. But usually, there was an alternative, and you could find something else that you could replace it with. And the back orders were, even when they happened frequently, it was short lived, right? Maybe, something would go on backorder for a couple of months, but then it would come back in stock.
Stephanie Goss:
And I feel like the last two years, a lot of us have had to face things being on backorders for extended period of time. And multiple things, that would be a solution or a replacement for each other being on backorder at the same time. Because the whole world has latched on to this panic buying where toilet paper is out of stock on the grocery shelf. So, let's order nine tons of it from Amazon and hoard it in our house. And I feel like that has applied to the clinic as well.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, I want to talk a little bit today with you about what are some of those strategies? How do we approach the fact that things are going to go on backorder? How do we be better prepared for that when it happens in the moment? And then, also, what do we do to prepare for it again? Because eventually, something else is going to go on backorder. And better yet, what are some things that we can do with our inventory, so that we avoid issues in the first place, if at all possible?
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah. So, those are really great questions and such a timely thing because, absolutely, to your point, it seems like literally, anything and everything is on backorder right now. This is like so random, but my favorite drink in the whole world is a brown sugar, oatmeal shake, and espresso from Starbucks. And I live in a fairly rural area.
Nicole Clausen:
So, anytime I go to town, which is like a 20 or 30-minute adventure. Every time, I get to Starbucks, literally, every time, I tried to get my drink, and they're like, “Oh, we're out of oat milk, we're out of oat milk, we can't get it.” And I'm like, “Oh, no.” So, it's just one of those things right now. But I think, as we're thinking about backorders, there's so many pieces, right? It's like, how do we prepare for before they ever happen? What do we do when it actually happens? And then, what are some steps that maybe, we can take to kind of build in some resiliency there?
Nicole Clausen:
And I think the biggest one that comes down to is communication. So, that really is going to be the key to backorders because A, how do we communicate with our team that something's on backorder? How do we make sure that everyone knows, okay, this product is on backorder, and it's not necessarily just out of stock, or I forgot to order it?
Nicole Clausen:
So, I love the idea of creating a hospital Slack account, if you've never heard of Slack before, it is like an instant messenger platform essentially, where you can create different channels and all the other great stuff. And so, you can have a channel that's just for backorders. You could have a warrantless channel. You could have different channels for different departments. It's so flexible.
Nicole Clausen:
So, I really like that. But then, also adding an alert to your practice management system. So, somebody goes to dispense something, it says, “Product X, Y, Z is on backorder. Sorry, here's an alternative.” Some pins allow you to do that. Some not so much. But we'll talk about the completeness of pins… This is another big.
Stephanie Goss:
So, we're still in the stone age's, bless their hearts. Okay, so let's start at the beginning, which is like, and I think it goes out of order, right? So, you would think logically, how do we preemptively prepare, so that we don't struggle. And I think, you and I both know that most of our colleagues deal with backorder, when someone goes to get something off the shelf, and it's the last of something, and it's not been put on the order book.
Stephanie Goss:
And now, we're completely out of it. And you've got five posted notes on your desk from somebody saying, “Hey, I need this thing. And then, you go to order it. And oh, they're still or that it's on backorder. And now, you're telling people that not only has it not been ordered, and were completely out of it, but it's on backorder, and you're not going to get it. And it's that moment of panic, I feel like most of us deal with most often that triggers. I know, for me, always triggered massive anxiety around, how do I… To your point, how do I communicate this? Because I know I'm going to have to tell the team.
Stephanie Goss:
And then, if I tell everybody who's here today, it won't help me with the fact that people are off, and then you play the telephone game. And then, people are like, “I didn't get the memo.” And that doesn't that doesn't consider how do we communicate that to clients either as well, right?
Stephanie Goss:
So, I love your idea of Slack. I think that's so great. We use Slack in my practice. And we actually, had an inventory channel. And that's where all of our inventory communications went. And we, for those of you guys who do Slack, if you don't use it, I love that you brought it up, Nicole, because you should absolutely, check it out. It's a huge communication tool, and can do a lot for your team.
Stephanie Goss:
If you guys are on Microsoft Teams hospital, Teams has a similar Slackish kind of functionality within it. So, that's an alternative as well, and there's several others. But what I love about Slack is, we had an inventory channel. And so, within individual channels, you can create a post, and then you can pin it. And I think about pinning like a bulletin board.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, what I would do is I started a message called backorders, and the backorder post was pinned within our channel. And so, anybody could go into the inventory channel and click on the pinned post, and it would always be at the top, and they could see what was on inventory, when did it go on? Or, what was on backorder? Excuse me, when did it go on backorder? What was the expected ETA? What was the potential alternative, if there was one? And any other important notes like, this is on indefinite backorder. There are no other alternatives, the doctors are having a meeting to discuss what we're going to use instead, right? That kind of communication notes.
Stephanie Goss:
It serves two purposes. One, it helps keep it all in one place. And two, it helped me as the manager with that ongoing communication within our team, because to your point, the communication piece is often where a lot of practices struggle, I feel like.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah, absolutely. And then, the communication can go beyond just how do we effectively communicate a backorder. But also, it's building those relationships with your sales reps with your especially the inside sales team, because they're going to be able to alert you to a lot of potential backorders that are coming down the pike. So, it's like building that relationship is so helpful.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes, I love that.
Nicole Clausen:
But then, also sometimes, okay, I'm not saying that we can predict backorders, because that's challenging. But sometimes, depending on what's going on in the world, we can think about, okay, is this going to have an impact on the supply chain?
Nicole Clausen:
So, if you remember back in 2017, I think it was, the big hurricane that hit Puerto Rico. And there's a ton of Baxter and manufacturing facilities in Puerto Rico. So, they had that huge hurricane. And subsequently, then we had huge backorders of fluids, fluid lines, all that other stuff, because we had all those facilities were damaged.
Nicole Clausen:
So, and then also, on that note, so if you remember maybe, it's like 2020, when India was really struggling with COVID really bad. India is actually, a huge exporter of generics. And so, because they have such a significant portion of generic exportation, we saw significant backorders in a lot of our generics.
Nicole Clausen:
So, sometimes, I mean, of course, not all, we can tell what might be coming down the pike as far as supply chain issues go, depending on what's going on with the world.
Stephanie Goss:
And I love your point about your inside sales reps because they are like, they're like the ones who should get cookies sent to them, right? Because they're amazing. And your point, the average inventory manager in a practice who's doing 95 other things during the course of their day, is not going to necessarily have the knowledge of what you were just talking about, right? They're not necessarily, going to know where different things are made in the world and where things come from.
Stephanie Goss:
But the inside sales reps, not only do they get notices on backorders, before they happen, but they also, that's what their training is for, right? They know that kind of stuff. And so, they should be your best friend.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And I, like you, leaned into those relationships and built really good ones. And in fact, it's funny because I have two inside sales reps at two different companies, distributor companies that I have worked with for the entire, I think, I'm going on my 18th year in practice, that whole time. And even though, I have moved states and moved territories multiple times, I have requested to keep that inside sales rep assigned to my account on more than one occasion, because they are amazing.
Stephanie Goss:
And it's worth building those relationships and taking the time to get to know them. Because lots of us lately, you and I both know living in rural areas, when you are in a rural area, you don't get the reps that walk into the practice on a regular basis. I feel like the first year I lived here, I could count on one hand, the number of reps I saw, and I probably, saw them twice in the first 12 months, if that, some of them I didn't see even at all, because the bigger their territories are, the more rural their territories are, the outside sales reps don't necessarily get to go around to everybody's practice.
Stephanie Goss:
So, but yet, everybody has an inside sales rep. And especially now that we've all leaned into remote communicating, having contact with them by email or phone, or I loved our distributors when they all started to add the chat functionality to their website.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
The ability to be multitasking in their practice and chat with my inside sales rep. And ping them and be like, “Hey, can you tell me about this thing? It won't let me order it, but I really need it.”
Nicole Clausen:
Totally. Yeah, those relationships of our inside sales reps can be so beneficial, and just making sure, because a lot of times, they can make stuff happen.
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). That is a true story. So, okay, so you think about communication being important, and when you think about communicating to the team, you mentioned needing to be able to communicate, what is happening with the backorder? Things like timeline. Do we have an alternative product? What do we know about the backorder situation? Is it now on allocation? Are we still going to be able to get it, but just in limited quantities? Is it completely unavailable? Are we in a pending queue, so that when they do get a stock in, we're going to get some like, all of that is important stuff to be able to communicate to the team?
Stephanie Goss:
And those are all the nitty-gritty details that people really, I feel like it's easy as the inventory manager to feel ignored a lot of the time, because the rest of the team is busy, right? And hundreds of times where I had shared that information with my team. They'd be like, “You never told me.” And I'm like, “Yes, I did.” But the reality is not that they're not listening, because that's the first place of mind goes this, right? Like, gosh, darn it, why doesn't anybody ever listen to me? But the reality is, they're doing a million things at once the same as I am.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, it goes in, and then it gets forgotten about. So, having a system where that can live, so that you can remind people and recall it and half the time, the doctors would ask me, “Hey, is this thing still on backorder?” And I couldn't tell you off the top of my head because things have moved and shifted and changed and the ability for myself to be able to go back and go, “Well, I don't know. Let me look, let me see what I put in Slack and see what the last update,” was huge.
Stephanie Goss:
So, that communication piece of it, are there other things that you can think of that we can do, particularly in the moment when we find out that something is on backorder to ease that pain? So, making friends with the inside sales reps. But, what else?
Nicole Clausen:
The next step would really be to see if there is an alternative, and come up with a little bit of a game plan. So, for example, in the case of, let's just say, Vetmedin and goes on backorder every other week, I feel like. Then, it's like, is there a compounded product of it.
Stephanie Goss:
True story.
Nicole Clausen:
Right. Yeah, it's like okay, it's just inevitable. It's not a matter if, it's a matter of when. So, it's like, isn't an alternative product? Can we get this compounded? Are the doctors comfortable with a compounded product? Is there an alternative product that's available? What does that kind of look like?
Nicole Clausen:
And so, I always recommend, especially in the moment because it is anxiety-inducing, it is a panic moment, just have like a cheat sheet, or just like, just some questions or something that you can either fill out or just think about, so have that readily available that says like, “Okay, I'm going to check compounding, I'm going to check with my inside sales reps.” And then, maybe, depending on the level of product importance, that might have like, a little bit of a change. Because we're going to treat tongue depressors differently, then we're going to treat like rabies vaccines or euthanasia solution.
Stephanie Goss:
Right, right.
Nicole Clausen:
So, it's like, depending on how critical this is, maybe I might do something differently. And then, trying to figure out, absolutely, to your point, if this is the long-term situation, because a couple years ago, if you remember, the opioid crisis, basically, we could not get anything for a long time. But we're down to basically, using like buprenorphine.
Nicole Clausen:
So, it's like, if that were to happen, what are our options going to be. And I guess, what is Plan A, maybe Plan C, maybe Plan F. And just thinking through, what fits best for your standard of care, what fits best for your veterinarians, for your care team, everything like that.
Stephanie Goss:
And this is where your point about communication, I think, is also really, really important because that is all communicating. And this is where it's hard for a lot of us who are inventory managers, because most of us are not doctors, although I know some of you who are listening to this, and I know your practice owners. And I know you're in charge of inventory at your practice, and you need to stop it because that should not be your job. Someone else on your team should be in charge of that. But I'm going to save that soapbox.
Stephanie Goss:
But most of our inventory managers are not doctors, right? So, we can't make those decisions in a silo. We have to be able to communicate with our practice owner, our medical director, our associate veterinarians, and have not only conversation and communication about what is going to happen, but they have to be involved in that decision-making process of you as the inventory manager supplying them with the information.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, you need to know things like, is this temporary or not? All of the questions that we've already talked about, and then be able to ask them, to your point, if we're talking about anesthesia, or something we use as part of our pre-med protocol, they need to know, are there any other alternatives? What can you get instead?
Stephanie Goss:
And so, I love your point about creating like a cheat sheet for yourself, or having some template, whether it's in your practice management software. They all have a glossary function, get yourself a glossary, and make yourself a glossary entry for when something is on backorder, so that you can fill in all of those note's fields. And then, kick a message to your practice owner or your medical director and say, “Hey, FYI, this thing is on backorder, here's all the info I have, please advise what you would like me to do,” right?
Stephanie Goss:
And then, that communication is really important because your doctor needs to be able to take under into account, is this something like, non-Earth shattering, maybe an eye ointment that's gone on backorder? And there's a generally, acceptable alternative that probably none of the other doctors are going to argue with them about? Or is this something like an anesthetic or pre-med where the other doctors might not feel comfortable using different things, and where they need to have a doctor's meeting to decide that kind of thing.
Nicole Clausen:
Totally.
Stephanie Goss:
And that's where I think that communication is so, so important.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah, because I think as we kind of like go into, I think, well not really even go into, but just continue the season of supply chain disruptions. It's just important for our team to come together on this, and realize that, A, inventory is a team sport, and B, you can't make more product in your bathtub. So, we can't…
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Nicole Clausen:
… conjure up these backorder products. So, it's like, how do we make sure that we are treating our patients to the best of our abilities because that's ultimately, what we're here for. So…
Stephanie Goss:
And let's talk about that for a second, because one of the things that I think can be a tool in the toolbox that a lot of times we forget is, there are often times where your main distributor might have something on backorder. But other distributors have it available, or where your online pharmacy partner has it available in stock, right? Because the distributors are buying things, obviously, in much larger quantities as our home delivery partners.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, that's a tool that you should absolutely have in your tool belt, and be able to reach for and know, who can I call? Who can I source? And it never pains me more than when I hear from somebody who's like, “We only have one distributor account, and I can't get this thing, what do I do?” And I'm like, “Ooh, freaking knife in the heart.”
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah, I know. It's like, “No, no, please.”
Stephanie Goss:
Right. So, I think knowing, and there's a couple of things for that, obviously, you as the inventory manager can't open up accounts, that's something that your practice owner or your medical director has to do, but having alternative distributors and being able to utilize something like VetCove, where you can just pop in what you're looking for and see, can you get it with another distributor in a one-stop view, right?
Stephanie Goss:
Or being able to lean in and say to a client, “Hey, we don't actually have this in stock, and it's on backorder. So, we're not actually, going to get a shipment for another couple of weeks. However, I can get you a bottle through our home delivery service or two bottles through them, because they still have it in stock, would you like me to send it to you, so that you have enough to get you through until we get our next shipment?” It's having those tools to lean into that I think are super important.
Nicole Clausen:
Totally. It's so important, I think especially right now with just our problems with availability is having the option for different distributors, manufacturers, just having that available to you. Because you can open an account, but you don't have to spend money with them. It's not like, you have to have like a monthly minimum.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Nicole Clausen:
So, I always recommend having different options, especially a mix of like smaller and larger distributors and vendors, so that if maybe your main one, it's on backorder through there, they can go a different route. And another thing that some people don't realize is when you're looking at your distributor's website, oftentimes, that's just the availability for your local warehouse.
Nicole Clausen:
So, it could be available in another warehouse. But that's where their relationship with your inside sales rep is key. Because you could just buzz them up and say, “Hey, I see this is on backorder for me, or it's out of stock, is it truly out of stock? Or is there some available in another warehouse?” So, I think that can be, just another really helpful tool for you.
Stephanie Goss:
So, getting out of the, in the moment, what are some of the things that we can do to prepare ourselves for when it's going to happen again? Because we know what's going to happen again. So, we were just talking about having multiple accounts with manufacturers and distributors, super, super key, right? Having an online and online pharmacy partner, I know you're a big advocate as well as I am. It doesn't matter who you're using. You just have to have one.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
You have the ability to say to your clients, “Let me have this, basically, drop shipped and sent to your houses,” is so, so huge. Are there other things that practices can do to help plan for when it happens again?
Nicole Clausen:
I think one of the important things is twofold is, recognizing what your really important products are. Because I think, sometimes, we're in the day-to-day, and we're thinking, it's not really in our mind. The inventory is all created equal. But in terms of importance, that may not necessarily be the case, right?
Nicole Clausen:
So, our vaccines, our euthanasia solution, our pre-meds, all of those are way more important than cotton balls and tongue depressors, and what have you, slide covers. So, just keeping in the back of your mind, and just knowing, especially when we're just in survival mode of what those… I like to call them your VIP products, so that you always know what those key products are for your practice.
Nicole Clausen:
And you can kind of keep a pulse on them to see like, and then the other thing is if you use Vetcove, they have little different colored trucks. Sometimes, you can start to see like, oh, one goes on backorder, and then maybe a week later, another one goes on backorder. And you're like, “Something's not right here.”
Stephanie Goss:
Yup, yup.
Nicole Clausen:
So, you can start to see the progression of the backorders. So, that's helpful to monitor, if you have the time. But really, just acknowledging what those key products are, can be super helpful.
Stephanie Goss:
One of the things that I know you do a lot of educating on with the clinics that you work with, and then just in general, within the communities that you're a part of is, the concept of reorder points. And you and I know that that's born out of that place of fear for us where we started, where we're literally shaking the bottle and going, “There's three tablets left, maybe it's time that I order it.” Or, more often than not, we're looking at the shelf, and it's totally empty, and you don't know how long it's been empty for, but you know that it shouldn't be empty.
Nicole Clausen:
Or actually, it's got to be something here.
Stephanie Goss:
Exactly. And reorder points are something that I feel like people really, really struggle with a lot. It's hard to get a really good, well-functioning system in place. But to your point, that's something that's really important, knowing what those VIP products are, and learning how to lean into the… I think all of us who are inventory managers get trained in the have all the things on hand, don't run out of things, but also don't spend too much money, right?
Stephanie Goss:
And so, it feels like we're getting pressed from all sides. And I think that's one of those places where I learned to lean into knowing the inventory and feeling comfortable enough to say, “Hey, look, the multiple different trucks have started changing color, or my inside sales rep has given me that heads up, saying this is going to be a thing. And FYI, it's going to be a thing for the next few months. So, you might want to stock up on this.”
Stephanie Goss:
That's where I leaned into trusting that the give and take and saying to my practice owner, or my medical director, “Hey, I know we normally don't carry a lot of extra stock. And this is now gone on backorder with multiple manufacturers, I really like, this is one of our VIP things. I really feel like now is the time to order, three months' worth, so that we have enough on the shelf. Are you okay with that? Right?
Stephanie Goss:
And that conversation seems to be so hard for so many people to have. And it's one of those areas that I see people reorder points, just seem to be one of those areas that I see our colleagues struggle with a lot. And I know you talk to people a lot about it. So, tell me about how you think reorder points can help us with this, with the backorder piece.
Nicole Clausen:
Totally. So, what I like about reorder points, and I could probably go on forever and a day about reorder points, so I'm not trying to keep that so much for you. But my favorite thing about reorder points is, they give their data point, right? They give us data and information. They put numbers to it, right?
Nicole Clausen:
So, I bet you right now, if you're listening, if you asked every single person in your practice, what low means for like gabapentin, let's just say, you're going to get a different answer for every single person in your practice. And so, what reorder points do is, they allow you to quantify what low means, so that you can say, because I bet then if you survey 10 practices in your area, low is going to be different for every single practice.
Stephanie Goss:
Yup.
Nicole Clausen:
So, when you calculate and utilize reorder points, it can help you quantify what's low. And then, so going back to what you mentioned earlier about having that conversation with your practice owner, or your medical director about a three-month supply, you now have data behind that.
Nicole Clausen:
So, rather than just saying like, “Oh, I think we should just order 10 bottles,” right? You know, because you have calculated those reorder points and your reorder quantities, that each month you use a bottle and a quarter without fail. Just that's kind of, so then you know, okay, like going and looking at, okay, what am I going to purchase for three months? You know, because you have your 30-day supply, you know exactly what that's going to look like.
Nicole Clausen:
And then, it gives you confidence in that direction to have those conversations with data and information, rather than just kind of be like, “I'm pretty sure, we should do this.”
Stephanie Goss:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). And I will totally admit, like when there have been plenty of times, especially when I was getting started with inventory where I just went with my gut, and I was like, “I don't know, maybe I should buy five bottles.” That feels like it's enough. And then, inevitably, I would just pick and shoot in the dark, like throw dart, right? And then, the thing would come, and then we'd go through it in like a week.
Stephanie Goss:
And I'd be like, “Gosh, darn it.” And now, it's on total backorder. And you can't get it. And now, everybody's mad because they're like, “I thought you said you were ordering enough to get us through.” And I was like, “I thought I was.” Don't get mad, don't shoot the messenger. But I think, I love… You and I are both super spreadsheet nerdy, friends at heart. And I love that.
Stephanie Goss:
The data is so, so important. And to your point, the ability to communicate that effectively with the person who ultimately is in-charge of that with you, your partner, whether it's your press owner, or your medical director, whatever, the ability to say, “I've pulled the numbers from AVImark. And here's exactly, how much we've used in a three-month period. The inside sales rep is expecting this to be on backorder for at least eight weeks. I really think that we should get 12 weeks' worth to be sure, are you okay that I order it? Here's the dollar amount that that's going to cost us.”
Stephanie Goss:
And make a case for those instances, where you go above and beyond. Certainly, your mantra and mine, which is, if it doesn't turn over in 30 days, you probably don't need to have that much on your shelf, right? So, I love that.
Nicole Clausen:
And I just think about, when COVID first started happening, we were like first experiencing these backorders. Sometimes, it's really easy to like, give into the panic a little bit. And I've just heard from so many practices, that at that time, they bought a bunch like Dex SP. I think one practice bought like 12 bottles, which is like, I'm not kidding you.
Stephanie Goss:
Oh, gosh.
Nicole Clausen:
A 16-year supply for them. So, when we think like, okay, what is so reasonable? Because when we panic buy, that makes the backorder that much worse. It's like, yes, we want to be taken care of, and we want our practice to be taken care of. But we also don't need to buy a decade's worth.
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Nicole Clausen:
So, I think having that data can help that.
Stephanie Goss:
And that's one of the things I love. Back to your point about our inside sales reps, it used to, in the moment, be frustrating, right? When I'm on the phone with my sales rep, and they'd be like, “Well, it's now an allocation. And I can only send you two bottles.” And I used to get frustrated with that because it's like, you feel that overwhelming sense of panic of like, “But what if I can't get any more? And why can't you just sell me the 12 bottles that I now want to buy?”
Stephanie Goss:
And you and I having done that kind of education that we haven't and worked with the manufacturers and distributors the way that we both have know that, for our practice, however big or small it is, there are other practices out there that have needs, that are greater than ours in volume. And so, to put it in perspective, we're feeling that panic.
Stephanie Goss:
But our friends down the street who have the ER specialty practice, who are using 10 times that volume in the month, are also having that panic and need more than we do. And so, that's one of the areas where I feel like, it took me a long time to understand that, especially our distributor partners are doing that math for us and trying to help us, provide us with that data.
Stephanie Goss:
So, they're looking at it, and they're saying they're pulling your 12-month, or sometimes 24-month history and saying, “Okay, look, Stephanie, let's be real for a second. Your practice has only used two bottles of Dex SP in the last 24 months, you don't need 12 bottles.”
Nicole Clausen:
We don't need to prepare for the daily infusion of a busload of Great Danes, it's just going to come in every single day. We, maybe, don't have to go there.
Stephanie Goss:
Right, exactly. But in that moment, it can feel frustrating because you're just like, I want to solve the problem. And it can be really easy to get irritated. But know that they're also working with data, which is super helpful. And if you haven't utilized them in that way, that is a great thing that you can do, pick up the phone and call them and say, “Hey, can you run my 12 or 24-month numbers and tell me, like if you're PIMS…
Stephanie Goss:
So, when I first started doing inventory, we were AVImark users. And our PIMS was a nightmare. And the inventory was not setup. It was whole hot dumpster fire. And so, I couldn't get any data out of it, even if I wanted to. And I can't tell you how many times I picked up the phone and called Mareeba and was like, “Hey, can you please just tell me how much we've ordered in the last 12 months, so that I could get that information?”
Stephanie Goss:
And so, if you're one of those people who's like, “We don't track it our PIMS, or if we, when we mentioned Vetcove, which is probably worth us telling those who are listening, going, “What is that? What it is?” Because I'm still astounded by how many people do not use Vetcove, it just blows my mind that there are still people out there that don't know it and aren't using it.
Stephanie Goss:
But if you're one of those people, pick up the phone and call your distributor, or send them, shoot your inside sales rep with email, because that's part of what they're there for. They're there to be your partner, and help you pull that data, even if you don't have it at your fingertips.
Nicole Clausen:
Yes, absolutely. Just trying to get that data, so we can get that information, because I don't know about you, but I feel so much more comfortable when I know, and then not having a guest. And I feel like, just having that data, just takes that question and the anxiety. I call it unintentional chaos, right?
Nicole Clausen:
Our practices are chaotic, as enough as it is. So, when we add in this layer of unintentional chaos, it's like, what can we do to mitigate that. And I think, adding data can really help that as long as you're comfortable with using it. So, that's another point is like prep for it. If you're listening, and you've never used reorder points before, you've never looked at how much you're actually purchasing or using a product. Just start with just a couple of products. And just get familiar with looking at that information in your practice management system or calling your distributor.
Nicole Clausen:
So, if you're ever faced or when you're faced with those decisions of like, “Oh, how this is going on backorder. And I want to comfortably, add in some extra stock, what does that look like?” You feel comfortable with that data. You feel comfortable finding out where to get that? Because I think it's a little bit easier when you're not in that panic state. And it's not a necessity that you find out right that minute, takes that pressure off.
Stephanie Goss:
Totally. Is there anything else that you would want to share with those who are listening with us today about the worlds on backorder? How do I prepare for this?
Nicole Clausen:
I also think, adding just, I'm not sure, I can't remember if I shared this already, but just like a sticker or something on the shelf of where it lives. And so, when somebody goes to try to find something, they're like, “Oh, this is on backorder.” It's not that they were out. Because I think sometimes, it's like, “Oh, we were in with Mrs. Jones and she agreed to all this stuff. And we bring the dog to the back, and we're out of a whole bunch of stuff.” It just takes the wind out of your sails. But just knowing that it's on backorder, I think is helpful.
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Nicole Clausen:
And then, of course, go ahead, sorry.
Stephanie Goss:
Oh, I was going to say, I love that. And I love your idea of having a sticker or something that you visually put on the shelves. One of the things we used to do is, we used a tag system for the inventory. And when things would go on backorder, those tags would sometimes sit in our to be ordered bucket for weeks and weeks and weeks. And I was always afraid that they would get lost.
Stephanie Goss:
And so, at some point along the line, we started putting backorder, we would cross out that someone had requested the item and right back order in Sharpies, so that everybody can see in the date. And then, we would stick a post it to it, if it had more info or whatever, put it in Slack. And then, we would put that tag, we would hang it off of the space on the shelf.
Stephanie Goss:
So, if someone was standing and looking at the shelf, it was really easy with the tags hanging off to visually see at a glance, what was missing. Not that just that it was, “Oh, there's an empty spot on the shelf. And maybe, we just happen to run out of it. But that, “Oh, hey, that's actually a backorder thing.”
Nicole Clausen:
Yes, I love the idea.
Stephanie Goss:
I love that. The idea of making a visual.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah, I feel like it's like, as many visual cues as we can make, because we're busy every day just buzzing around, taking care of patients, and sometimes, it's like, “Ah, where is this? What is happening?” Sometimes, just those visual cues, can you just be like, “Oh, yeah, okay, that's what's happening.” You don't have to quite, I guess, think as much.
Nicole Clausen:
And the other thing that I always like to share about backorders and just like managing inventory right now is, if you're an inventory manager listening to this, you are amazing. You are literally managing inventory for a practice in, I hate saying this word, but unprecedented in time when there have never been more backorders and supply chain issues and just navigating this whole thing, like don't forget to just remind yourself, how amazing you are for navigating all this right now. So, just like, if you're feeling down on yourself, just remember, just be like, “Okay, Nicole said, you really are doing amazing.”
Stephanie Goss:
Hashtag true story. Let's take a second, we say in Uncharted like, “This is a hold the trophy moment.” Hold the trophy for yourselves, you guys because Nicole is a 100% right. This is one of the hardest things that maybe, any of us who have managed inventory have ever had to go through, and you are doing an amazing job.
Stephanie Goss:
And to that end, if we have people who are listening, Nicole, and they're like, “I would love to even just be able to commiserate with my fellow inventory nerds, because I didn't even know that there were groups out there.” Where can people find their fellow inventory nerds in your Facebook group?
Nicole Clausen:
Totally. So, you can look us up on Facebook. It's called, The Veterinary Inventory Management group. Feel free to join us, we would love, love, love to have you. If you're not on Facebook, we also have a platform outside of Facebook called The Veterinary Inventory Strategy Network. Both are free to join. There's just a lot of really great people. So, we would love to have you, for sure.
Stephanie Goss:
And if there are listeners who like one of the things that I love about you is that, now that you are a person who has made the leap out of practice, and are just nerding out on inventory and helping practices every day with your day job, I love when people ask me questions, I'm like, “You need to reach out to Nicole,” because she has got so many resources and so many tools.
Stephanie Goss:
And we do, I mean, we have multiple courses within Uncharted where we talk solely about inventory. And we do a lot of the surface stuff. And one of the things that I love that you do is get down in the weeds with practices and help them on a practical level with setting up their practice management software with figuring out how to do ABC analysis with learning about reorder points. And everything from the basic education to the in-depth consultation stuff, which I think is so, so important.
Stephanie Goss:
So, for those of our inventory managers who are listening, who are like, “That's me, I am in crisis mode, I desperately need help,” is there a place where they can find you? And we'll drop all of these in the show notes for you guys, so you have links to Nicole's platforms.
Nicole Clausen:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I have a lot of information on my website. I release free guides all the time. I also, offer remote consulting services, like if you need help with any kind of inventory, I probably have something for you. You can find my website at vetlogic.co. That really is .co and .com. I actually, also have a Pinterest account, where there's like a ton of VetMed and pharmacy inspiration and just all that kind of stuff.
Stephanie Goss:
Awesome.
Nicole Clausen:
Pinterest is also @veterinarycarelogistics, same with Facebook and Instagram. So, I'm pretty active on all the social media channels. And so, if you're listening, and just say, hi, and just send me a message on Instagram @veterinarycarelogistics. I'd love to just say hi, in chat with you. I also do have like a PDF guide on backorders that I can send you, so feel free to send me a DM, and I can send it over to you.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah, I actually, was checking it out through the website today. And it's super, super easy to access. And for those of you guys, who are listening, who are Uncharted members, if you're like, “Hey, Stephanie is talking to us about this class that we didn't even know existed.” You can search in the Knowledge Library. And if you search inventory, it'll pop right up to the top for you. There have been multiple sessions of that, or you can send me or Jen Galvin a message and we'll get you to the right place within the community.
Stephanie Goss:
Thank you, Nicole, so much for being here and talking with me today. This has been so fun. And honestly, I can totally see you and I having more conversations in the future because like you said, we could talk about this stuff all day long.
Nicole Clausen:
Totally. Thank you so much for having me. It was so much fun. And I always love getting to nerd out on inventory. So, it's always a good day when we talk inventory.
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah, it is. Okay, take care, everybody. Have a great week.
Nicole Clausen:
Okay. Bye.
Stephanie Goss:
That's a wrap on another episode of the podcast. Thanks so much for joining me this week. I hope you enjoyed this different kind of conversation that I had today with Nicole. If you did have a feeling that you would enjoy joining us in Greenville, South Carolina for our upcoming April conference. We don't have too many spots left. I think there's maybe, five. But we would love to see you in Greenville.
Stephanie Goss:
It is happening April 21st through the 23rd, and I just want to take a quick second to say, thank you to our sponsors. Without them, we couldn't make our live events happen. I want to thank, Hill's Pet Nutrition, CareCredit, and Nationwide for all their support. We are looking forward to spending time with them and with you in Greenville in just a few weeks. Hope to see you guys there. If you head on over to the website at uncharteredevent.com, you can find out more information about registration. Take care, everybody. Have a great week.
