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This Week on the Uncharted Podcast…

Stephanie Goss has gone rogue! She invited Tyler Grogan, Veterinary Technician and Uncharted Social Media Goddess as well as Eric Garcia, Marketing and Social Media genius/guru of Simply Done Tech onto the podcast. Fair warning – when Stephanie gets to have dear friends on the podcast, shenanigans ensue and this week is no exception. You may have heard Eric lecture or write about a topic near and dear to his heart – #unplugging. If you haven't heard about it, you are definitely in for a treat. Stephanie and Tyler were both inspired by Eric's invitation to veterinary medicine to unplug from social media and technology and lean into being present for periods of time in your life. All three of them lined up time this summer and this episode is their get-together to discuss what went wrong, where they struggled the most, what went perfectly right, and whether they will do it again. You all be the judge – let's get into this.

PS – As mentioned in the episode, you can check out Bored and Brilliant. All things Eric has written on unplugging can be found here https://ericgarciafl.com/unplugged/

Got a question for the mailbag? Submit it here: unchartedvet.com/mailbag

You can also listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Thank you to our sponsors! To learn more about this week's sponsor, GuardianVets, check out their website HERE.

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While Uncharted Membership is always encouraged, you DO NOT have to be a member to join us for GSD! Non-members, here’s your chance to see what all the buzz is about and get a taste of the Uncharted experience.

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Episode Transcript

This podcast transcript is made possible thanks to a generous gift from Banfield Pet Hospital, which is striving to increase accessibility and inclusivity across the veterinary profession. Click here to learn more about Equity, Inclusion & Diversity at Banfield.

Andy Roark:

Hey, Stephanie Goss. Do you got second to talk about Guardian Vets?

Stephanie Goss:

Yeah. Whatever you want to talk about.

Andy Roark:

Man, I hear from people all the time that are overwhelmed because the phones never stop ringing. And I'm sure you hear from these people as well. Our caseload is blowing up, and the doctors are busy, and the phones just don't stop.

Stephanie Goss:

They never stop. That is a true story.

Andy Roark:

I'm amazed by how few veterinarians know about Guardian Vets. This is a service where you have registered technicians who can jump in virtually and help you on the phones. You can flip the switch and Guardian Vets can jump in and take some of the load off the front desk and they can handle your clients and get them booked for your appointments and give them support. And it really is a godsend.

Stephanie Goss:

Pre-pandemic, it was amazing to me how many people hadn't heard about it for after-hours call help. But at this point, I can't believe how many people don't realize that they are offering help during the daytime as well, which I would think right now is a huge benefit to practices because everybody is shorthanded. Everybody is drowning in phone calls. And so we talk about it. We've talked about Guardian Vets a lot on the podcast and every time we do, we always get somebody who says, what is that?

Andy Roark:

Guys, if you're not familiar with Guardian Vets, if you think that you could use some help on the phones or up at the front desk, check them out. It's Guardianvets.com. And if you mention our podcast, me and Stephanie Goss, you get a month free. So check it out, guardian vets.com.

Stephanie Goss:

Hey everybody. I am Stephanie Goss. And this is another episode of the Uncharted Podcast. I have got an intro coming to you as part of the episode because I am being joined today by some very special guests. This is a very special episode for me. It is the subject that is very recently near and dear to my heart. It is near and dear and a bit of a passion project for one of our guests and is something that our third guest experienced along with me this summer. We are talking about unplugging. Let's get into it.

Andy Roark:

And now the Uncharted Podcast.

Stephanie Goss:

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Uncharted Podcast. I am Stephanie Goss. And today I am joined by two of my favorite people in the whole wide world. I have my fellow teammate, Tyler Grogan from the Uncharted team. Tyler is a veterinary technician. She is a social media mastermind, marketing guru in training and an aesthetic genius. Tyler brings you all of the things that are beautiful as far as Uncharted goes. And we are also joined by my dear friend, Eric Garcia, who is a marketing guru and social media genius. He's not here to talk with us about any of that today. The three of us are here today because we are going to talk about one of Eric's passion projects, which is unplugging. Welcome to the podcast, you guys. Hi.

Eric:

Hi. It's so good to be here.

Tyler Grogan:

Hey, Stephanie.

Stephanie Goss:

Hi. I am so glad you guys are here for our listeners. This is going to be an episode filled with giggles and laughter because we have literally been talking for the last few minutes, getting ready to start recording. And I have already cried with laughter, so be prepared. This will have even more shenanigans than Andy and I's normal episodes, and I appreciate every bit of it.

Eric:

I'm excited for it.

Tyler Grogan:

I have no idea what to expect.

Stephanie Goss:

Poor Tyler. So those of you guys who listened to the podcast regularly, poor Tyler got voluntold for this. She was listening to an episode for her job trying to pull quotes out to post the social media quote and heard me say, oh yeah, by the way, we're going to have an episode upcoming with Eric, and Tyler's going to be on with us. And she was like, I'm sorry, I'm what?

Tyler Grogan:

I was like, that's a great idea. I'm so glad that I knew that it was happening, but I guess I'll see you guys on the podcast soon. And here we are, the genius of Stephanie Goss.

Stephanie Goss:

Eric said before we were recording, that's probably your style and he's not wrong.

Eric:

It is. Totally is. That's a hundred percent Stephanie Goss.

Stephanie Goss:

If you were ever wondering what it was like to work with Stephanie Goss, that's a preview ball and told. But we are here. I am super excited for this episode. So Eric, tell us a little bit about unplugging and how you got there. You talk about this a lot. So a lot of people may have heard it, but kind of give us the origin story.

Eric:

Yeah, so the origin story actually started about nine years ago, I was reading fast and company, and there was this guy who was talking about how he spent a whole 24 hours without technology. He was talking about the effects that he had when he did it and how he was able to.

Stephanie Goss:

Did his palms sweat? Was he shaking?

Eric:

Believe it or not, from the article he actually did very well enough to the point where it didn't scare me away.

Stephanie Goss:

Okay, fair.

Eric:

I think you're starting to share some of your perspective, which I'm very curious, and I have a prediction about how your experience went. He did it for a day and he talked about how amazing it was. I challenged myself to do it for 10 days because I thought if I'm going to do something, I'm not going to do it small. I'm going to-

Stephanie Goss:

Go big or go home.

Eric:

Exactly. And it came at a time where I was just experiencing this fatigue from constant connectivity. I think a lot of people don't realize how much of a distraction email, text messaging, social media, our fricking phone and all of the technology around us actually is in our day to day lives. It causes stress, anxiety, and I'm not someone who is normally an anxious person. I'm not someone who normally becomes stressed easily. I started feeling all of these symptoms. And when I read his article, it really opened my eyes that maybe this is something that I could benefit from. It really hit home because that prior year I had the opportunity to go to Europe for just vacation first time ever. And I remember we went to France, we saw the Eiffel Tower. It's like this magical moment. But the moments leading up to that were filled with checking my email, being on social media and consuming a whole bunch of content that ultimately kind of carried into my experience and my vacation.

Eric:

I think a lot of times we don't realize that when we're on vacation, we consume content on social media that doesn't necessarily always make us feel good. We will get an email maybe about a problem that's going on at work about a new project that landed on your plate. And here you are supposed to be in this moment. For me, it was supposed to be enjoying this beautiful Eiffel Tower, but I couldn't stop thinking about those things that were distracting me prior to. And so I said, I'm not going to let this happen anymore. And so I decided to take 10 days of unplugged, which unplugged to me has there's dual benefit to me, it's not just unplugging from technology, which is perhaps the biggest part of it, but it's also to unplug from work and to have conscious efforts where you're saying, I'm going to truly enjoy myself. I'm not going to be tied to work. I'm not going to answer emails, text messages and things like that. And so I did it and I did it for a whole 10 days, and it was amazing.

Stephanie Goss:

That's so freaking impressive because that's like zero to 900.

Eric:

Yeah. 100%, ten days. It is, but it's amazing.

Tyler Grogan:

What you said about how there's a couple different components to you of what unplugging means, which was unplugging from technology in general and then unplugging from work, that was something that Stephanie and I, I think we both did seven days where we tried to do seven days of unplugging. And right from the get go, my first question was, well, wait a minute, what does that mean? Like defining what it was and from what your experience was, it sounds like you really completely unplugged, like weren't texting, weren't checking email. Were you communicating with people on the phone? What's the level of unplugged from technology that you did?

Eric:

Tyler, I'm actually really happy you asked that question and shared that because I think sometimes I forget to define what it actually means. I'll kind of share with you how my thought process has evolved since I started originally, and it still rings true to today. Unplugging means you're not sending text messages. You're not on social media. You're not going online on websites and surfing. You're not doing YouTube, anything like that. For me, the exception was that I would use my phone to listen to music. Everyone knows music transports you to wherever you want it to go and to take you. And so music was a big part of it, but my phone was always in airplane mode in the beginning years of it.

Eric:

For example, my mom watches my dog. So she knew where I was going to be at to be able to get a hold of me. And so for me, unplugging was just no technology at all from your phone mostly and iPads and things, don't try to get creative with it.

Stephanie Goss:

He's looking at me, you guys. He knows about the iPad stash in my bag.

Eric:

From this phone, but I can still use this phone. So not anything like that. Don't try to get creative. So I was very staunch on saying that if you're unplugging, you've got to do it like that, and that's the only way. And I felt that way for years. And I still feel that you have to truly unplug by doing that for a certain period of time, Jay Sheti who has this great podcast and great guy that really kind of gets into the mindset, very positive mental mindset, he talks about how you need to go through both extremes. I didn't really find this out until recently. And I thought he'd really eloquently put it together to say that you have to experience both extremes. So you have to experience the extreme of constant connectivity, right? So all the messages from all the things, and then to experience the complete opposite extreme, to be able to then find that balance between the two. So for me it was that one extreme, and I would bounce between the two extremes.

Eric:

Where my thought processes evolved is I've had friends tell me, well, it doesn't just have to be that. I've had friends tell me that maybe it's just selectively choosing what you want to unplug from. So if you think you have a toxic relationship with social media, then maybe unplugging for you would be not going on Facebook or Instagram, maybe it's unplugging from email or whatever it is that you want to try to escape. So I'm fine with that. And I call that unplugged moments where you have periods of time throughout the day or on the weekend where you do that. But I think to truly harness the benefit of it, it's just nothing. All of it goes away.

Stephanie Goss:

So, Tyler, tell us a little bit about your experience this summer. So both of us had known about Eric's idea from an industry perspective in how toxic social media can be and just how connected we are. And both of us had for different personal reasons had talked about, okay, let's make this the summer of challenge, and let's do this. And so, Tyler, tell us a little bit about how you came to your unplug journey this summer.

Tyler Grogan:

Sure. Right before I was about to travel to Canada to speak at a conference there and spend some time with my friend Saye that you guys probably know from Uncharted and beyond, but we were going to go to explore the national parks there. I had basically a three week trip planned to Canada. I saw Eric's post on Instagram. It was like, hey, guys, I'm unplugging for the next month. And I was like this might be the opportunity to try this. And so I messaged him and was like, I'm going to do this for a week. And he was like, okay, let know how it goes. I was like, okay, I will. Well, then I hear Stephanie later on the podcast right before I leave.

Stephanie Goss:

You can't put something like that out publicly and post on Instagram and then not expect me to jump on that and be like, oh yeah, okay, you're voluntold. That was the moment. Just in case there was any doubt. I saw the message on Instagram from Tyler and was like voluntold, done, over with.

Tyler Grogan:

So I set myself up for that. But anyway, so right before I was about to leave, I saw that and I was like, okay, well now I really have to do this. I said, I'm doing it. I have to do it. So my plan was that I was speaking at a conference. So I wanted to share about that experience while I was doing that but then right after we were going to travel to the national parks, and I already knew I was going to have limited connectivity just because of where I was going to be. I was only going to be with Saye, and that was going to be about four days and then three days following in Ottawa with her. And so I decided that was the week.

Tyler Grogan:

So, much to my dismay, when I got to our Airbnb in Yoho National Park in a small town of 200 people called Field, I found out they had fantastic wifi. And I was like, oh, okay, well, this takes away some of the barrier for me to be using technology, but I'm going to power through. I had a really interesting experience with it because like it kind of came in phases. So the first few days we were very like, we're going to be out hiking. When you're out hiking, obviously you're not on your phone, but right from the beginning, I was like, but my camera is on my phone and we need the GPS on my phone to get to the places we're going to go hiking, and we need music because we're going to be in the car for a really long time. And I've got to check on my cats. And I've got to make sure that the person we're meeting in a few days knows where we're going to meet. And I'm like, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?

Tyler Grogan:

I was like, logistically, how am I going to actually do this? And so I had this conversation with Saye, I was like, look, I have to do this. I've been told, I'm doing a podcast. I have to do this. So how are we going to make this work? And she's like, okay, in classic Saye fashion. She was like how are we going to define success of you doing this? I was like, this is some coaching. I like it. And so I have notes that I wrote down. I'm like, what are the rules? And I was like, no social media and no email. Before I left, Ron, our executive director disconnected me from Slack, which was incredibly helpful. It was very easy for me to go and just in my kind of like almost automated motion, I realized click on the different icons of social media or of Slack just to open, and it almost was like an unconscious thing.

Stephanie Goss:

Muscle memory.

Tyler Grogan:

I removed the icons from the homepage and Slack, the first time I tried to open it, inevitably, even though I said, I'm not going to do this, the first time I tried to open it, it was like, you can't do this because you're not even-

Stephanie Goss:

Access denied.

Eric:

I love it.

Tyler Grogan:

I was like, oh, that's good.

Eric:

Go Ron.

Tyler Grogan:

There were a few phases where like I could go into ad nauseum amount of detail. But I think the first, really big question that came to mind was like, what are the rules? That's why I asked, what does unplugging actually mean? Because to me, I was like, if I'm not completely unplugged from technology, then I failed unplugging. But the reality was like, I actually needed the tech. I felt like I needed it, and maybe we could have found ways around it. But I felt like I needed the technology for a significant number of reasons that I was like even traveling outside of my normal day to day, this is going to be really difficult.

Stephanie Goss:

You and I talked about, okay, you're using… Eric was doubled over dying in laughter as Tyler was describing what she's using her phone for. But it's true. Tyler and I had this whole conversation about, we have these computers, like it's more than just a phone, right? So we have these computers in our hands. And we don't think at first glance about all of the ways that it's interconnected. And so Tyler and I had this conversation about, well, I'm taking pictures with my phone, and I don't want to disconnect from that because I want to be able to capture moments and much more intentional moments, I think, than normal. Tyler and I had some conversation about how it forced her to think about how often she's using it for that and what she's capturing versus like, oh, let me just selfie.

Stephanie Goss:

When we think about let's do it to post on social media, we don't think about it with the same level of thought. I think that we think about it when we're looking at it as this is my camera. I'm not lugging camera equipment with me. This is my camera. I'm trying to capture this moment. And it's hilarious to me because as Tyler and I were having this whole conversation about what we each did, Eric, you're going to laugh, neither one of us thought about airplane mode. Both of us were just like we… This is our moment of there's a light switch, dummy, and you just flick it on and off. Neither of us thought about airplane mode. And we both were just like, what are the rules?

Stephanie Goss:

Like it's funny because both of our heads went to what are the rules? How do we define this? We were like, let's channel Eric. What would the rules be? And so when we had the conversation afterwards, Tyler and I were both like, we have so many questions for Eric about what are the rules and how do you define it? Because neither one of us thought, oh, that one button does all of the things. But to Tyler's point, she needed GPS. So there are pieces of it. And that was one of the questions we had for you because you and I have had that conversation, Eric, about using your phone to use Pandora stream music or whatever.

Stephanie Goss:

And I think that was part of the big picture thought for me this time was what am I going to try and use my phone for? And figuring out like Tyler, are there hacks and easy things that I can do to make my phone more restrictive so I don't just muscle memory hit that button and be like, oh, let me text or let me send a Slack message to everybody? And still be able to access the pieces of technology that don't count yeah or are needed to your point.

Eric:

I'm sweating because this is just so funny, and I feel like I've led you to failure.

Stephanie Goss:

Let's be clear, you're sweating before I even tell my story.

Eric:

I'm excited. This is like-

Stephanie Goss:

Also, let's be clear, you have not failed. You have not failed us. In fact, that's part of why we wanted to do this podcast because-

Eric:

This is great.

Stephanie Goss:

… we had conversations with you, both of us individually, before we did the thing and asked you for input and guidance like, hey, we're going to do this thing because both Tyler and I recognized one of the core things for Uncharted is, look, if you don't have a partner and somebody to help keep you accountable, it doesn't actually happen. And so Tyler and I both recognize we need accountability partners, and so we approached it from different perspectives, right? For Tyler, one of her accountability partners was having the conversation with you and trying to figure out what are some of the rules and then continuing that conversation with Saye and people who she was going to spend time with. But also one of the accountability partners for her was Ron. How do I unplug from work? And I approached that in a very different way, which is part of my failure.

Stephanie Goss:

But I also had a conversation with you about like, look, let's get real. Eric knows me very, very well. For those of you who have not heard this story, Eric and I met and really started our friendship probably about six years ago when we were at Fetch in San Diego. And I actually went there so that you and I could sit down and have some conversation about social media. But at Fetch, you were doing a workshop on unplugging. And it was really funny because I was still in practice, and I was very active on social media at the time. And one of the things that I had volunteered for was live tweeting the conference.

Stephanie Goss:

And so I find myself sitting in Eric's lecture about how to unplug, and I'm literally like sitting there with my phone in my hand thinking I have this assignment, there's this thing I'm supposed to do, and I'm in this class telling me not to do the thing. And I was sitting there and my palms were literally sweating. And I put my phone in my back pocket and thought, okay, if I sit on my phone, maybe I can actually listen to him. I caught myself in the first five minutes taking out my phone to repeat something on social media that Eric had said, because I thought it was great. But then I was like, dude, I'm not actually even listening to this, and so I was really trying. And so I literally put my phone in my back pocket and like leaned over to one side so I was sitting on it.

Eric:

You did well.

Stephanie Goss:

My hands were sweating, but I made it. It was like a 50 minute lecture, and I think I made it through like 35 minutes without touching my phone. And that was the first time. But I'll be honest and candid with you guys. That was probably the first time in I don't know how long that I went 30 minutes without the phone being in constant reach because I recognized in that and then in followup thought and work on myself that I have an addiction to my phone, and it is a very powerful one. And when I started looking at my own life and recognizing I am using it for good things, I am capturing my kids' childhood, I'm capturing moments, but I'm also missing a lot of things because of what I'm doing with my phone. And so that led Eric and I on our friendship journey about sharing this also recognizing that I have been in long term recovery for a very long time and recognizing that's one step at a time.

Stephanie Goss:

For me, I cannot go zero to a hundred because I will fail. I have to take it in small bite size pieces. And so that was the first step that day recognizing I have a problem and then starting to work on it. And now six years later, it's taken me six years, but six years later I was at the point this summer where I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to actually unplug for days on end. And unlike Tyler, I was like, I can't go to seven days, but my family had a trip planned, camping. We were going to kind of be out in the middle of nowhere. So like Tyler, I thought, okay, here's a physical barrier to being able to get online. Also like Tyler, I get there and discover, hey, the whole world has wifi now.

Stephanie Goss:

And so we're camping with kids. We're not really that off the grid. So there's wifi where we were. But my thought was, okay, I can do this. We were going to be there for four days. And I thought three nights, four days, I can do that. That feels like a sustainable amount of time for me. I had very mixed results. Not going to lie. I'm going to tell you guys, Tyler probably earned a B plus on her unplugging. I don't know how she graded herself.

Eric:

We're grading now, okay?

Stephanie Goss:

I would say she probably earned herself an A minus, B plus. She did a really good job. I was like, these are the things. I wouldn't say that I got an F, because I did ultimately unplug for two days. I would say a D minus was where I landed.

Eric:

I'm curious about that. Tyler, why would you grade yourself a B plus?

Tyler Grogan:

Those were not my words.

Stephanie Goss:

How would you grade yourself, Tyler?

Eric:

Yeah. How would you grade yourself?

Tyler Grogan:

I think I would've given myself probably like a C minus on unplugging.

Eric:

Let me reframe something and then see if this changes how you grade yourself. So unplugging is mostly about constant distractions. So constant distraction would be social media, would be texting, would be email, would be those things that we interact with consistently. There are exceptions, using GPS isn't breaking the rule, right? I've been places where I've had to take it off of airplane mode to turn it on for GPS. Admittedly, I've had places where I've gone because I was going somewhere on vacation and I had to message the guy’s Airbnb. You can do those things, it's what you can't do is you can't, you kind of start to fall out of it when you go on social media or you take a peek at email or when you see a text message or thankfully you were disconnected from Slack, or if you went onto Slack. It's okay to use it to convenience you for those little situations. Or did you relapse when it came to work and social media? Where do you feel? Would that help you give yourself a better grade?

Tyler Grogan:

Well, yeah, let me elaborate a little. The work side of things, I was disconnected from Slack, and I absolutely was very conscientious not to check my work email. So I feel like that was an A plus, like work disconnect was an A plus. I felt the outcome of that when I got back. I was able to do that for that entire trip, disconnect from work. And I came back feeling recharged and ready to get back to work. So that was definitely A plus.

Eric:

Can I just quickly jump in on that? I think what Ron did well, and I think a big lesson to take away from here is that Ron took the initiative of disconnecting you from Slack. I think as a leader… Wait, did that not happen? Did you ask him to?

Tyler Grogan:

I'm laughing because Stephanie and I had two different experiences with that because Ron, as a leader did succeed but also did ask us if we were okay with us being disconnected. The first day I had to answer, I knew I had one email for work that I needed to pay attention for before my trip started. And I answered it. He saw me answer the email, and he messaged me immediately and was like, I am going to disconnect your work email. And I was like, no, you don't have to do that. It's okay. I knew this one thing was coming. I promise I won't do it again. But, Stephanie, when she was asked, gave a much different answer than what I said.

Stephanie Goss:

So it's funny. This was really part of what I was curious to talk through with you, Eric. I run everything for my calendar and my whole life through my work calendar. Better or for worse, my work calendar is where I keep all of the info. And so like Tyler, I also did some preparation and was like, okay, and I told the team I'm going to go, I'm going to unplug. And I thought that I set myself up for success in that I had the autoresponder on. I had been telling people, I think about your basic rules, you communicate ahead of time, you let people know, you put on your auto message, so people know that it's coming. I did all of those things. And then for me, my plan was I have a couple of days where I'm going to be somewhere else, but I'm going to be working remotely, and then I'm going to unplug and I'm going to go.

Stephanie Goss:

I worked those days, and I reminded everybody, hey, starting this day, I'm going to unplug, I'm going to do the thing. We didn't have the conversation about Slack or any of that. And I actually am kind of glad because my immediate gut response was I don't handle that loss of control. Even if it was my boss, if someone told me I'm going to take this away from you, that would have had a visceral response. I would not have felt good about the experience because I wouldn't have felt like I was an active partner in it. If it was a discussion about like, how would you like to do this? I think that I would've been more open to that. And that was part of what Tyler and I were talking about.

Stephanie Goss:

Because Ron was like, hey, this worked out so great for Tyler, maybe this should be our company response moving forward. And several members of the team were just like, absolutely not. We will lose our shit if you tell us that you're going to do these things. And so it was a conversation about how do we come up with rules that support each other as a team? So my immediate gut response was that. I recognize that that's part of the addict talking is that I need to be in control here.

Eric:

A big part of the addict talking, yeah.

Stephanie Goss:

And so I do recognize that. We'll come back to that. Anyway, I set myself up. I did what I thought was the prep work to be like, I'm going to be gone. I had update meetings with everybody. I met with Andy right before I left. We ran through all of the things like this this is a sit rep, this is a status report, this is where everything is at. I'm going to hit the pause button. Everything will be fine for the four days. I've gotten everything to a place where I could drop off the face of the earth for four days and it should be fine.

Eric:

So real quick just on that point. You know you're unplugging.

Stephanie Goss:

Yes.

Eric:

You told everyone.

Stephanie Goss:

Yes.

Eric:

So why did you still feel the need to be this connected if you made the conscious effort to leave it behind?

Stephanie Goss:

Because for me, I knew because I was choosing not to remove… I was like, I'm not going to turn things off of my phone. I'm not going to… I knew the messages would still be coming. People are used to me having the instant response. And so for me it was like, hey, I'm going to go. But also I need you to understand that I'm serious about this. I'm really not going to not going to answer. Then I immediately failed.

Eric:

Yeah. And that's normal by the way. I mean, I don't ever expect anyone to come back from this the first time and either, A, love it, or even, B, have done an amazing job at it because it's an entirely different thing that you have likely never done in your entire life, except from before you started working and we relied on our parents and depending on that.

Stephanie Goss:

Yeah, when we had actual phones? And if you left the house, no one could find you for days on end, and it was fine.

Eric:

That's a very normal feeling. I think it's really important for people to recognize that that's a very normal feeling. But you're right, that response that you had is exactly the reason that you should continue to try to work on that. I feel that companies and practices should have very strict disconnect policies, and I think it would make people like you very anxious but I think at the end of the day, it would-

Stephanie Goss:

I took my Xanax before we recorded this, so I'm fine. We can talk about it.

Eric:

I wish we were all sitting down at a bar and having this conversation, but I think it's very important for the businesses that we work for to set those examples. For example, we have a very strict unplugged policy. When you're hired on board, there's an unplugged policy that you sign that says when you are out, you are out. Email gets turned off. Slack, all of that gets turned off because that employee is going to be a million times better when they come back and they weren't bothered at all.

Eric:

We don't purely do it because we want them to be better. We also do it to help them because not everyone can do it. And so I hear what you're saying, and I genuinely like the approach of, well, let's tailor it to that person, but I don't actually think that would be helping you in the long run.

Eric:

Because unplugging isn't about checking messages and triaging, that's not unplugging. That's just going to work and checking your email. Here's the reality, Stephanie. If I were in your situation, if I were quote/unquote unplugged, but I still triaged email, I would be in 100% your shoes. In fact, I had a similar situation happen. I had both extremes happen. I remember one time I came unplugged, this was a few years in, we had a brand new employee working for us. I came back, and as you can imagine, one of the reasons people don't unplug is because like there's millions of emails. I expected that. That is built into my unplug time. I come back, I spend a day and a half just doing email.

Eric:

This one year, and this was the most bizarre experience for me, and I learned to like it, but I didn't in that moment. I came back, I probably had easily 300 emails or whatever, and that employee responded to a majority of them because it redirects to that person to say you should go to-

Stephanie Goss:

If you need help, this is your person.

Eric:

Right. They were asking specific questions. Someone had a negative review. How do I respond? This person wasn't really hired on to do those things. They know what they're doing, but that's not what their job was. And so this person responded to everything. I came back, and I'm reading it. And I was like, I probably wouldn't have said it that way. And then I read some emails and I was like, wow, that was actually probably better than I could have said it. I remember when I was done, I'm not kidding you, I was probably caught up within two hours after being gone for over 10 days. I was like, I don't like this. I don't like this at all because you just did my job, and, yeah, you didn't do it in the way that I would have done it, but you really didn't do it in a way that was going to lead us to the company was going to crash.

Eric:

And I remember thinking like, oh, letting go of that control and letting someone step up to the plate and fail to learn from those failures actually ended up being one of the best things that could have happened because now that employee is the one who things are directed to, and I have the confidence knowing. And they know what they did wrong, and they know what they did really well. And so I think that's a very normal response though, and I know that letting go is hard, but I think slowly letting go… And I don't think maybe four days is probably the best thing for you right out of the gate. I think for some people, it works. I think, Stephanie, you just need to start with like a Saturday.

Stephanie Goss:

But I hear what you're saying, and I actually recognize that. And so for people who are like super control freaks, I recognize the addict in me says, don't take away that control. And that is actually what is needed. And so I do the work. I recognize that. So I would do it differently. And so for me, I felt like this is a total failure. And Tyler and I were having this conversation. And one of the questions we had for you is I said, I know Eric has policies, and I know that his company is set up that way now. And so the question Tyler and I had was, you jumped into this zero to 60 on a personal level, how do you then start to have those conversations with your team? Because I'm thinking about all of our listeners who are like, I would love to go. I mean, that was me as a practice manager. I would have loved to step away literally for a 12 hour shift and not get 19 text messages and phone calls.

Stephanie Goss:

How do you move in that direction so that you do have company policies, that you do have protocols, that you do have processes in place and still have buy in so it's not just me, Eric, as the business owner saying, this is how we're going to do it and you either take it or leave it, but how does the team be a part of that?

Stephanie Goss:

Because Tyler was like, well, this is what we did. And I was like, oh, I don't know if that would work for me. And I know other people on our team felt the same way. And so we were like, can we have a discussion about this? And maybe ultimately the decision is still, this is the policy and protocol, but everybody in order for there to be buy in, everybody needs to feel heard. Right? And so for me, as the manager mind was turning, I was like this is where we need to have the conversation with Eric about how do you get there as a leader? How do you start to have those conversations with your team? Because it's not easy.

Eric:

Yeah. I think it's really critical because this is what happens sometimes is people will say, well, can we have a copy of your policy? We'd love to institute it. And then they go back to their practice and then they just distribute it in their com boxes or by email. And they're like, hey, we now have this policy. That's obviously not how we should ever implement a policy. It's like a cell phone usage policy or social media policy. It's like, hey, I heard from this person. We shouldn't be using our phones on the clock sign this policy and it's like, well, hold on. So to that point, it's really important, I believe, to have a conversation with your team during a team meeting where you carve out ample amount of time to talk about, A, the benefits of saying, hey, listen, we value your mental health, it's extremely important. We want you to be able to leave work and enjoy life outside of work. It's to say that we're doing this to prioritize you and what we're going to do so you can relax is we're going to have redundancies in place.

Eric:

There are going be other doctors that are going to see your cases. There are going to be other technicians that are going to fill in shifts. And everyone's going to have a turn to where they will eventually be on vacation and we'll be able to do this and kind of explain the logic behind it. Talk about how it prioritizes the employees.

Eric:

I think this is funny because a lot of times practices are like, oh, we prioritize mental health and it's like, well great, but how do you do that? And this is one of the many examples of how you actually do that and how you actually say, well, we can say one thing, but here's how we're going to prove it. And then I think a big part of that conversation is to say, you might not like it, but we're doing this for you, and we're doing this for us, because you're going to be a better employee at the end of the day, and you will learn to enjoy a life outside of work. And I think what's dangerous though, and I can say this about the practice that I used to work at with peace and love, I even saw the person yesterday. I think where we start setting ourself up for failure is when we are accessible when we're on vacation. And the message that we're sending other people is to say, well, if I'm accessible on vacation and you can ask me questions, then you're going to be expected to do the same.

Eric:

And we kind of champion that. We're like, yeah, oh, you can do it, email me. I love work. It's not about that at all. It's about just-

Stephanie Goss:

I'm in the hospital, but you can message me anyways.

Eric:

But let's be real, that probably happens every single day. Right?

Stephanie Goss:

I say that because I've been that manager literally in the ER sending my team that message. It's fine. I have cell phone reception in the ER, just message me. It's fine.

Tyler Grogan:

My gosh.

Eric:

Oh gosh. Listen, now, part of that would be, I just don't want to focus on what I'm actually dealing with.

Stephanie Goss:

That's true.

Eric:

I can see validity in that, but yeah, I see where you're going.

Tyler Grogan:

Well-

Stephanie Goss:

But it is. Go ahead, Tyler.

Tyler Grogan:

Well, there's another piece of the conversation though, that I think that we didn't have as a team, which was, let's agree to put these things down until this person comes back. I see how you would feel saying, look, I need to pause this because I'm going to take a break. But when I come back, it's the first thing on my list. And then someone saying, oh, it's fine, I can definitely send that email. But then having a very important piece of information, like you said, not available to them and then something gets blundered while you're away, I can 100% see why that would be really hard to deal with.

Stephanie Goss:

And that was my first response, right? I was just like, I had this conversation with Andy. He knew that this was where things stood. Why didn't he tell you? You know what I mean? At first, I was mad at Andy because I was just like, dude, I handed this off to you. And then in further conversation to Tyler's point, it was about, we didn't have team agreements. And so the team was like, Ron said, no, Andy actually told us that. He said, you should wait until Stephanie gets back because this is her thing, and she's doing the thing. And so I was like, okay, immediately all the misplaced anger at Andy goes away. And he's like, but we were trying to help. And we just thought, oh, we'll just check it off and it'll be done and we can move on. And it was that learning lesson.

Eric:

What also kind of goes with that though is I believe that there's rarely anything that needs to be addressed right in that moment. Right? Continuity business will continue whether you're there or not, but there's rarely… That was a problem I had myself was I'll tell you for example one of the biggest challenges was I unplugged maybe a year ago. I don't know. The pandemic is kind of a blur. It was during the pandemic, and I was literally unplugging in between this massive project that I was working on with Royal Canin. I remember I was plugging back in hours before I was set to kick off this multiseries event being translated in seven different languages. Like it was this big thing, and I could have easily said, well, I don't want to. I'm not going to plug in until after this, but I did. I unplugged right in the middle of that.

Eric:

I did all of the most core things that I needed to do, but there was nothing that would've been urgent that was going to change the course of that project because it was already set in stone. And so I don't think that there's hardly ever anything. I think Stephanie kind of going back to this also reminds me of when, and I don't know if you remember this or not, if you were tweeting, but in that session then… What was Fetch called?

Stephanie Goss:

I was CVC then.

Eric:

CVC sorry. At that CVC conference-

Stephanie Goss:

We're dating ourselves because we're old.

Eric:

I know. We really are.

Stephanie Goss:

I had to reach for them like, oh wait, it's not CVC, it's Fetch. Let's call it by the right name. But it was CVC then.

Eric:

Yeah. I remember this veterinarian toward the end of the session, and she was crying and she was saying that she could never unplug because a pet owner, a client of hers, sent her a message on Facebook and was asking a question about her pet that was in some sort of emergency. This veterinarian who's a solo practitioner decided to unplug, take vacation, prioritize herself, not be online, not answer any questions. When she finally plugged back in and she checked on that pet owner, the dog had died and the owner said, well, it's your fault because I was waiting for a response from you. And she started crying and she said, I could never unplug again. And that was a really heartbreaking story because I've heard that numerous times since then, and I don't agree.

Eric:

I think it's easy for me to say because I'm not a veterinarian, but I don't agree because there are systems that can be put in place. There should be auto responders on Facebook that should link to the emergency clinic when you call. So there are things that you can do. And our dear friend, Megan Brashear, in the lecture that her and I give together on setting boundaries, she said, you're not the FBI. You're not that important. I don't care who you are. You're not that important. And there's nothing that needs to be done right in that instance.

Eric:

Now, it would be different if you were leaving for 30 days at a time, but what's really cool is there's also a book called No Rules Rules Netflix. For me, it was also a life changer because they talk about how there's no vacation policy and people can take as much vacation as they want, and they can do it at whatever time they want because they let people know… They set this expectation that you're not going to do it at a time where there's a million important things going on. You're going to find the right time and you're going to end those projects. And anything that comes in after that isn't going to be urgent. And I think about this is executives do this, all level employees, engineers, people who are responsible for the streaming, all of these employees will do this. And one of the cool things that Netflix does is that when they kick off their team meetings, if someone was on vacation, they actually put that employee on the spot and they say, hey, what'd you do? We want everyone to know what you did, and we want you share pictures.

Eric:

And even the executives will kick off a team meeting. And they're like, I was just in Fiji for five days and I loved it. And here's what I did. And they do that because they want other people to see that they can also do the same thing and they also should do the same thing. And so I really think it's important to kind of always keep that in back of mind. It's easier said than done, right? I mean, it's definitely easier said than done, but I think it takes practice, but it can definitely be done with the right practice.

Stephanie Goss:

It can. I will say I felt like I failed miserably. I had a meltdown. Jenn talked me off the ledge. I put my phone away for the remaining 48 hours of my unplug time. And I had a great time with the kids and my family and was like, okay. And I stopped. I didn't check email after that, because I was so upset. I didn't check email and I didn't set check Slack. I did a really good job of that. I used my phone for pictures and stuff like that, but I didn't post on social media. That was a hard and fast no go for me. I was like, I can't be on social, it's toxic.

Eric:

Awesome.

Stephanie Goss:

I did really good. I felt really good about it. It was like, okay, it was a little win. And then since then, I have had several… You were not wrong. Go take it one day at a time. And so that has been my challenge for myself, and I'm stretching it into longer, longer periods of time. So it's like can I spend the whole day, and can I really be present? For me, I've recognized that like the temptation of having the phone in my hand is huge and I've recognized, and this is part of the recovery process long term for myself, is recognizing that I am one of those people where the addiction tendencies are really strong and I can't have the temptations.

Stephanie Goss:

It's the same way with me with caffeine. If it's in the house in any format, it doesn't matter if I don't like it or not, I will consume it. And so for me it has been about that with my phone as well. It's actually been a benefit because I have leaned back into… I used to be an avid photographer and loved using my camera and had almost quit using my camera for years because I had my cell phone and the cameras on cell phones get better and better. And why wouldn't I use what's in my pocket. Right? And I don't have to lug gear. But the kids and I have been doing adventuring this summer, and I have picked that back up. For me it is about I have to leave it at home and it's making sure that if we go somewhere, I leave it in the car or I leave it in my purse, and I will catch myself.

Stephanie Goss:

If it's in my purse and the kids are doing something or they're playing with their friends, we just recently spent a day up at the lake, and they're in the water. I was sitting there drying off and was like, oh, just pull out my phone. I was like, I can't. I can't do it because the next thing you know I'm on social media and stuff like that. So for me, it's been a really painful, but good personal journey and recognizing I am so in awe of people like you and Tyler who were like, let's jump in and I'm going to do seven days or do 10 days. Also, part of why I wanted to do this was to say there are people listening and I see you.

Stephanie Goss:

I feel you because that was me. I couldn't make it through a 50 minute lecture the first time I met Eric, but here I am six years later, and I've made it for days now at a time, and I am working my way up. So the learning lesson for me was that I want to do what Tyler did. Maybe not in the same way that she did, but I want to go longer. I want to be able to do things. And so I'm working my way towards that. I think Tyler had a similar experience where it was like I went and some things went really, really well. And I gave her a really high grade on purpose because she's too hard on herself. And she did do things really well. And she also recognized… Tyler, I would love to hear from you, what are the things that you would want to do different next time, and how do we take our own personal experiences?

Stephanie Goss:

And to your point, Eric, how do we bring that into the company? And how do we start having those conversations as a team? Because we both independently and together recognize the impact that it had on us, but also the ripple effects of that experience on the rest of the team intentionally and unintentionally.

Tyler Grogan:

The other half of my grade was outside of the work piece. And this was where I had a lot of questions for Eric because things I would do differently, I was like, I don't really know how or why I would want to do this differently. And part of the experience on the personal side of unplugging, where like unplugging from technology completely was, what about the downtime? Because I don't know if this was your experience because you said your first unplugging experience, you traveled to France, and I'm not sure if you were on your own or if you had people with you. But part of that was, I was with somebody else. So they had access to their phone. So they'd be showing me things on their phone or things like that, which I felt like, okay, that is what it is. I'm not picking up my phone and doing this.

Tyler Grogan:

But there was a lot of downtime, especially when you're traveling. And then also the second half of that week was spent back in a normal kind of environment of like we're not always going to be out hiking all day where we don't have service and we're not being present in a moment of sitting on the couch and watching something together on TV can be much different than being present actively doing something. And I was like, that was where I struggled because we got back and suddenly we're in a normal home environment. And we're spending some of our time in between going to have meals or doing things together, just hanging out. And so you're normally on your phone scrolling through whatever or talking or, oh, let's look up this new thing that we both want to know more about.

Tyler Grogan:

Those were the parts that I was like, okay, how I would want to maybe do this differently, but how could you do it differently? And also I felt like there were times I wanted to talk to tell my mom about how my trip was going or tell somebody how it went speaking at the conference the week prior. I was like, is unplugging from that taking away from me?

Speaker 1:

Tyler asked me, am I actually breaking the rules?

Eric:

Yeah, so-

Tyler Grogan:

Yeah, because that actually is something I want to spend my time doing is talking to somebody. And so I was like, it's the two extremes and then what's falls in the middle I was like, this is okay.

Eric:

That's just it. Again, first off, I should have kicked this whole thing off by saying I'm not an unplug expert. It's just my experiences and the experience from my friends. But I think, Tyler, what you bring up is really important because even my unplugging has evolved. So for example, in the early stages of it, for the first few years, like I said, my phone was on airplane mode. It's evolved in the sense that my dogs are older now. My mom does watch my dogs. Elvis had a back issue, so I'll keep my phone on, but it'll be on do not disturb. And I'll FaceTime my mom. So that'll be like, hey, how are things going? How are you? I have a very close relationship with my mom. My friends on the other hand hate when I unplug, because I even unplug from them, and I got a lot of crap from my friends.

Eric:

And then I'll see threads of text messages that they'll forward me or that I will be on that I won't see until I get back. And they're like, oh, he's probably unplugged. And he's not talking to us. And this is unacceptable. I do think to your point, one of the things I'm learning is that maybe it is okay to send text messages to my friends and be like, hey, how are you and check in. It's just making sure. But see, I've had the experience of knowing what a true unplug is to know that that won't leak into something else. My biggest fear with that was, and the reason I went cold turkey with text messages, is my biggest fear is I would get a text message that would be related to something that I'm trying to avoid for an extended period of time.

Eric:

But I think there are ways now, like you can prioritize messages from friends and suppress other ones. So I think there're apps within our phones that give us better control than we had before. I think another thing that's really important, two more items. One, is I had someone I remember one time she's like, well, it sucks when you unplug and you go out to dinner with your friends and no one else is unplugged because at some point during dinner everyone's on their phones and I'm just sitting there. And I told her, I said, well, try to make it a game. I'm not condoning people to drink or anything like that, do what you want. But what I told her was like, if you happen to be at a bar or somewhere where there are drinks and that's what you're doing, then make it a game. Make everyone put their phone into a hat or something. And the first person that reaches for the phone has to pay the tab for that night.

Eric:

And so challenge your friend to do that. I remember that person that I recommended that to followed up with me months later. And she was like, I got to tell you that was a lot of fun. We started having these in depth conversations that we didn't. And this happened to me as well. I was friends with someone for my whole life, and there are things that I didn't know about them that were going on. And it's just amazing how the moment that we pick up our phones and everyone else starts to follow along like a domino effect that we lose that ability to connect deeper with that person.

Eric:

And then the third thing is is you're going to be bored, and you have to embrace that boredom. And that was a learning curve for me is like, I'm bored. I don't know what to do. And it's interesting. I'll be honest. I was never a reader. Now, I love reading. I'm reading all kinds of books now. I wrote an article while I was unplugged. You can choose to channel that in productive ways. I started my book a few years ago, albeit haven't gotten back to it. But I started that when I was unplugged. You can find things that you can do. I had someone one time tell me that she cleaned out her house that she's been needing to do forever. It doesn't sound fun, but the feeling that comes from setting goals or from cleaning your house out or from writing an article or accomplishing something, psychologists approve that dopamine hit that we get from that.

Eric:

And so it's that productive, that good feeling that you leave from it. And I will tell you when I'm unplugged and I'm bored, that's where I come back and I create some of my favorite lectures. That's where I come back and I'm truly inspired to do new things. My recent unplugged, it's been two weeks now and I have been exercising again because that's been a goal that I've set. And so these things, if you let your mind get to them, will actually allow you to be happier at the end. The problem is is we're so distracted that we never get our chance to let our mind be bored, to tap into the most creative part of who we are.

Eric:

Even at a stoplight, we pick up our phone and we're like, let's check Instagram. You don't get to be bored anymore, and boredom is such a brilliant thing. Yeah. So

Stephanie Goss:

It's totally true. I feel like I gave myself a D minus on this whole unplugging.

Eric:

I'd give you both an A. I don't think you're giving yourself credit.

Stephanie Goss:

Wait, I will say like the thing that came out of it… I feel like I failed, and I also was exceptionally proud because ultimately for me one of the pieces was I love to read. And for me, I was so looking forward to I'm going to unplug, I'm going to sit by the campfire and I'm going to read. I read 12 books in the week that I was gone. I was like, I feel really, really good about this.

Eric:

That's awesome.

Stephanie Goss:

It felt really accomplished. And to your point, Eric, the creative juices were going, I worked on website. I felt good, and I felt good about some of those choices in technology. I know, Tyler, you felt similar in a different way.

Tyler Grogan:

Yeah. I felt like in the end I realized that my relationship with social media in general had already changed where I wasn't really looking to it for entertainment as much anymore. And I was just kind of like, while it was muscle memory, it wasn't something I missed a whole lot. So that was an interesting discovery. But I also kind of journaled each day just to keep track of… And one of the things I would journal was a moment that I felt most present. I really feel like I was looking out for that. I shifted my perspective from looking at it. I don't know. I just paid attention for those moments a little bit more. And when I realized that I maybe was taking that away from myself for the opportunity to feel that, I think I can see that differently now.

Tyler Grogan:

And then some of those memories that I felt like now that I have when I was really present in the moment, those are some of my favorite memories from the trip. So more than the pictures that I took on my phone. But I feel like once I figured out, once I called it from the beginning an experiment, and I figured out what unplugging worked and what didn't for me, it was overall like a really good experience. My challenge now to myself is to translate that into my normal day to day life like Stephanie's kind of experimenting with. Like one day at a time still implementing those moments, like you called them unplugged moments, that's what I want to work on now.

Stephanie Goss:

I would agree with that and take it one step further, which is I think you were spot on Eric about for me especially, it gets one day at a time, but what I recognized with this experience was I did, although I was upset and there was a lot of turmoil and stuff I had to work through in regards to work when I came back, I recognized that I read all these books, I hung out with my kids, I spent quality time with my family, that felt really good. When I started talking to my therapist about it, analyzing myself, I recognized that I don't even get a weekend. I don't even give myself that on the weekends on a regular basis.

Stephanie Goss:

And so to Tyler's point, I started looking at how can I apply this first to having what lots of people would consider a normal life and actually leaving work at 5:00 PM on Friday and being able to have Saturday and Sunday where you don't work and you do a thing. Like, for me, that was the first challenge. And I think I probably will set myself up. I haven't put the dates on the calendar yet, but I am looking ahead to next year of what does that look like, and can I go a little bit longer baby steps, right? I'm not going to try and go 10 days. I'm not going to a retreat where nobody talks for days on ends. That is not me. I can never do those things. But how do I take it one step up? And the rest of this year, it is about how do I make that apply to my life as a whole so that I start to have a little bit more balance because it's very unbalanced.

Stephanie Goss:

I think our whole team has learned from this, and we have talked about it. I just have to say thank you to you because it has sparked conversations for us as a team about how do we change ourselves as a business recognizing that first step starts with admitting it, right? It's recognizing we have a problem, and how do we work together to figure out how to meet the basic needs, but also to the points you brought up earlier, sometimes that is the addiction talking and sometimes the control has to be taken away from you. And that is probably okay. And it took me quite a while.

Stephanie Goss:

I did my unplugging and so did Tyler in the beginning of summer, so June. We're two months after that, recording this, now it took me two months and multiple therapy sessions to work through my emotions. Let's be real. I was not in control and I was real mad, but I feel really good about it, and I feel positive about the changes that we want to make. I think, Tyler, you want to do this again, right?

Tyler Grogan:

Oh, 100%.

Stephanie Goss:

And I know you're addicted to it, Eric, because now it's multi times a year. When it first started, Eric was like I'm doing this once a year, and this is a thing. How often are you doing it now?

Eric:

It depends.

Stephanie Goss:

It's not a process.

Eric:

Yeah. There are times, there are definitely two extended periods of time throughout the year that usually fall within a holiday period because it's important to spend-

Stephanie Goss:

Schedules.

Eric:

Yeah. But sometimes I just do it when I'm like, I've hit my limit.

Stephanie Goss:

Need a break.

Eric:

Yeah. And when I know I'm responding to emails in a short manner when I know I'm getting frustrated, when I know I'm getting mad at things that I shouldn't, and then I know that's for me. And, listen, to both of you. I think it's very critical for people to share their experiences with unplugging, and the two different perspectives that you have I'm not surprised because everyone's going to have an entirely different experience with it. Everyone's going to have their own rules. Everyone's going to have their own thing that they're trying to accomplish. I think as long as we can celebrate the art of being able to unplug and celebrate the different ways that we do it and that we talk about it and that we encourage other people to do it, I think it can really help our colleagues, our friends and our peers be their better selves and be happier and more productive.

Eric:

And so I appreciate the platform and I appreciate both of you taking on this challenge and doing it yourselves. Stephanie, I'm going to be honest, my prediction originally was going to be that you hated it a hundred percent and that you never wanted to do it again. And you proved me wrong. You hated it 90%.

Stephanie Goss:

Let's be real, I hated it a hundred percent. Well, that's not true. There was moments like Tyler said where I really enjoyed. I was like, dude, I'm engaged. I love my family. This is the whole freaking reason I went on vacation because I actually do love them. And I love my siblings and my parents. I want to spend time with them. And so those moments were good. The rest of it, you're not wrong. In the moment I hated it a hundred percent, and I was like, screw this, I'm never going to do it again. But I will say, the gauntlet has been thrown, the challenge has been accepted. I will work on Andy Roark because I think that this would be a fun challenge. And then we'll have to have you back for round two to hear how Andy handles it.

Eric:

I'm very curious, very curious.

Tyler Grogan:

I think we all are.

Eric:

Not just Andy, how everyone around Andy handles it.

Tyler Grogan:

That's true.

Stephanie Goss:

Fair. I love it. Poor Andy. He's going to listen to this and be like, I did not sign up for this, guys. You're fired.

Eric:

This podcast will not air.

Stephanie Goss:

No, I love it.

Tyler Grogan:

One thing I want to say before we're done is that I do think that the timing of this was kind of the right timing because I think the last few years with the pandemic and the level of connectivity has increased to such a degree that we were seeking each other out because we couldn't physically be together, and a lot of the connection was taken away. And so coming out of that and having the first opportunity to spend quality time with people that were really important in my life in person and just one on one was I think that that was the right time to try this.

Tyler Grogan:

Thanks, Eric, for really throwing that out on social media; Stephanie, for volunteering us to do this podcast so that I felt that I would disappoint everyone if I didn't actually do it.

Stephanie Goss:

Voluntold.

Tyler Grogan:

Because it was exactly what I needed. It just made me appreciate that much more the personal time that you get with people in your life. So thanks, guys.

Stephanie Goss:

I love it.

Eric:

Thank you both.

Stephanie Goss:

I love you guys. This has been so much fun. This might be our longest Uncharted episode to date, but hopefully everybody's hung in there. They're like, oh my God. This conversation was so great. I had so much fun, and I think Eric would challenge all of you.

Eric:

I would.

Stephanie Goss:

Wherever, if you want to go in, all in, and you're like, I'm going to do 10 days or you're like can I do 50 minutes, wherever you fall, we are here for it. And I want to hear on our social media how it's going because I love this challenge. Eric, we will follow up because there will be a discussion with Andy.

Eric:

Done. I cannot wait. This is part of the reason I want it this year. I can't wait that long.

Stephanie Goss:

I love it. Take care everybody. Have a fantastic week.

Stephanie Goss:

Hey friends, have you been over to the website lately to check out all the fun and exciting things that are coming from the Uncharted veterinary team? If not, you should stop right now and head over there because we have got some awesome stuff coming late summer and into the fall and winter. I want you to be there with us. We have our Get Shit Done conference coming in the fall. That is happening in October. Before that we've got a workshop coming in September from my dear friend, Dr. Phil Richmond. He's going to be talking about avoiding toxic teams, how to create psychological safety in our practices. We've got the amazing and wonderful technician, Melissa Entrekin, who is leading a workshop in October about leveraging technicians, making practice less stressful for you, them, and your patients, and all kinds of other fantastic things you are not going to want to miss out on.

Stephanie Goss:

So if you haven't been over there lately, head on over to unchartedvet.com. You can hit forward slash events if you want to go straight to the events page, but that will show you everything that is coming. And, remember, if you are an uncharted member, your membership gets you access to all of these workshops that we do on a regular basis for free. If you are not currently a member, you can check out the membership information because it will save you big bucks throughout the year on accessing all of the workshops, and it scores you access to the conferences when we have them like Get Shit Done for less money. That's right. Get a discount. Who doesn't love a good discount? Thanks so much for listening, guys. We'll see you soon.