When the clinic schedule looks light, should the practice owner send techs home to save costs—even if it means stretching the remaining team thin? In this episode of The Uncharted Veterinary Podcast, Dr. Andy Roark and Stephanie Goss dive into a manager’s dilemma: balancing payroll concerns with patient care and staff morale. They share actionable steps for addressing these staffing challenges head-on, including how to communicate with leadership, gather input from the team, and propose solutions that keep the clinic running smoothly. This is a must-listen for veterinarians, practice managers, technicians, and the whole veterinary team looking to tackle real-world workflow issues and support their clinic’s success. Let’s get into this episode!
You can also listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.
Do you have something that you would love Andy and Stephanie to roleplay on the podcast – a situation where you would love some examples of what someone else would say and how they would say it? If so, send us a message through the mailbag! We want to hear your challenges and would love to feature your scenario on the podcast.
Submit your questions here: unchartedvet.com/mailbag
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Episode Transcript
Stephanie Goss: Hey everybody. I am Stephanie Goss and this is another episode of the Uncharted podcast. And this week on the podcast, we are diving into the mailbag after some conversation about some things going on in our personal lives to tackle a letter from a, what we think is probably a technician/manager in a practice who has a practice owner that likes to send people home when it gets slow, which sometimes it's a good thing. Some team members are the first ones to shoot their hands up and say, I would love to go home early. And sometimes it is challenging for the team. And this team member found finds themselves feeling a little bit caught in the middle between being short staffed and sending people home early. Let's get into this.
Dr. Andy Roark: And we are back. It's me, Dr. Andy Roark, and the one and only Stephanie Back on the Chain Gang Goss. Back on the chain. I love that song.
Stephanie Goss: I love you so much. Your, your Southern, your Southern, your Southern white male roots just showed a lot.
Dr. Andy Roark: Back on the chain gang.
Stephanie Goss: A lot.
Dr. Andy Roark: I like that song. Yeah.
Stephanie Goss: I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you keep, keep liking that song in your head. How's it going, Andy Roark?
Dr. Andy Roark: It's, it's great. I, um, I'm on, I've gotten on board with the new country pop music crossover thing that's happening culturally now.
Stephanie Goss: Like, the, in what way, like, Beyoncé goes country, or
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, like,
Stephanie Goss: like, hip hop country crossovers that are
Dr. Andy Roark: the hip hop country crossover thing. It's been hoisted upon me, but, Post Malone's I Had Some Help is like, I play that song again and again. The bar song, Tipsy, like, those, playing those, they, they were put upon me by my children, but now I am. Now I am on board with this strange bass heavy country music.
That's that's what I'm singing. I'm singing that And I'm singing Espresso and every time I sing it I say to my kids. Have you heard this song? I discovered it and I brought it into the house. And of course they they were listening to it like a year ago, but I um, I I I For whatever reason it makes me it makes me very happy to act like it's a brand new song that they haven't heard yet
Stephanie Goss: I, uh, I was very proud because I went in and updated. We have an uncharted playlist for those of you who are listening and have never been to an uncharted event. We have an uncharted playlist. You can find it on Spotify. It's called uncharted anthems. Uh, and it started with Kelsey Beth Carpenter and at our very first event, and she put together this playlist and it has grown, but it's been a while.
It's been more than a hot minute since we've updated it. Um, I feel like Two years ago, maybe Tyler Grogan, uh, had moved into the DJ role and Tyler created our Uncharted Anthems Pride Edition. And we had a, we had a Pride Edition update. Um, but it's been a hot minute and I went through and I was very proud of myself at how much hip music I added because we listened to the Uncharted Anthems playlist in my car and my kid goes, Who added this? You didn't add this. And I was like, excuse me. I did add this. Okay.
Dr. Andy Roark: My kids are constantly pushing me to like new music. It's, I, I love it. I love it. I went, I went to this, um, I went to this work thing for my wife's job over the weekend and I ended up sitting at this table with these other guys, right? And so they were male faculty members at the university and, and spouses of, of faculty members and stuff.
And just by random chance, I look around, there's three other men at this table and they have all sent, all or most of their kids to college in the last five, six years. And so they're like, two of them are completely empty nesters. The other one has got two out of three kids out of the house. And I'm sitting on, I'm sitting on a junior in high school and an eighth grader, and the whole conversation was me going, what do you wish you knew about your kids leaving the house? Like, Yeah,
Stephanie Goss: What is my life about to be like?
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah! They were like, you seem really worried about this. And I was like, oh I am. I have a friend and her kid, her second kid went to college and she told me it was worse than divorce. was like, it's worse, it's worse than divorce. And I'm like, oh no! And so, anyway, I um..
Stephanie Goss: It's, I mean, it's coming for you soon.
Dr. Andy Roark: I know!
Stephanie Goss: Have you guys, uh, I was thinking about that the other day because I was talking with my kid about who is, um, maybe like more, your oldest daughter is very organized and very like meticulous and she has had the map and the college plans happening. I mean, it's, it's, coming.
Uh, and my kid is the same way and so she is a sophomore this year and she already announced to me some of her plans for spring break of her junior year. next year when she wants to go do college tours. And so like, kid, you're like a year, you're like a year and a half ahead, but you're really in it. Like, is Jacqueline planning like all of the things for this year and yeah.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, there's college, college tours are coming over spring break. Um, yeah, my wife and I are, and my mother is like, I'd like to take her to see my Alma mater, Wake Forest. And I'm like, you know, okay, that's, that's, that's fine. Um, but there's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of talking. I'll tell you this, you know, you and I just recorded an episode and I talked a lot about making decisions and managing when the future is unknowable and you know, we've, we've, we've saved some, some money for her to go to college.
It's not, it's not, there's, I don't know how much money you have to have today to be like, you can go anywhere you want. Like, I don't, I can't, I don't, I can't fathom how much money that is. Uh, we, we have some savings for her and we, we're going to try to help her and I have no idea, I have no idea what things are going to actually cost.
You have to go through this and you have to apply and then see if you can get some financial aid. There's, you know, the state of South Carolina has some scholarships and stuff. And then we have this thing, which we're really lucky to have access to.
Because my wife is a faculty member, she, there are certain schools that they are like in this network and the, and the kids of faculty members can go to other schools for like, for either, it's not without tuition. They say it's like tuition free, but it's not, it's different every school. And, but, but you, you have to compete against all the other kids of faculty members that are also in this program.
It's like, it is not guaranteed. And so it is just, it is really interesting that we're talking to our daughter. And basically my big thing is. Don't fall in love with anything. Don't fall in love with anything. Don't like, go look at everything, make your priority list, but like, we're going to have to do, we're gonna have to do the whole song and dance and apply and see how things shake out.
And it's like, Stephanie, I didn't, it wasn't that way when I was a kid. When I was a kid, I was just like, yeah, I think this is where I want to go. And my parents were like, okay, we can afford that. And like, now it's just
Stephanie Goss: Well, because when we went, because when, when we went for our undergraduates, a whole semester of tuition and like books and room and board was like $5,000. And now it's just, just tuition is like $35,000 a semester.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, it's just, it's just, it's just weird. It's a weird scenario and just to go, to go through it. But it is, it is interesting. I told you, I told you that Jacqueline, you know, she's really into design and production and she's, she's really into this fine arts thing and she's, she geeks out about lighting.
She loves lighting design for theater production. I'm kind of like, You know me, I, I've always said, figure out what you love and what you're good at and figure out how to do more of it. And like, honestly, I think that's the key to happiness, but I'm not exactly sure what the job market is like for someone who designs lighting for, you know, for theater productions, but she, the first, the first school that she came back with, I was like, wow, this looks neat.
I've never heard of this school. And it's a conservatory, which means they don't have anything other than theater classes. Like there's no math. There's no science. Well, Allison's a biology professor. And I'm a veterinarian and like, the, the idea that they don't have a math department, we were both like, are you sure this is, I mean, let's, let's look at other places as well. It was, it was that.
Stephanie Goss: It's kind of mind boggling. Although I have to say, like, I really, I really love seeing, I really love seeing them become like their own independent little people and know, trying to figure out what they want and who they are in life. And it's really, it's, it's funny to me because I'm, uh, doing a lot of the same with my kid while I do a lot of work on, uh, My on myself.
So, um, I'm, I'm working on going back to school at the same time. And it's just, it's interesting to be where I am in my life and be thinking things and watching my kid do the same thing. And And the lesson for me has been about stepping back and not trying to make my experience her experience and letting her figure it out on her own.
And that's really hard. That's really hard. It's like, are, but are you, are you sure that's what you think you want to do? You know, it's like with the conservatory, are you sure that's what you want to do? Let's look at some other schools, right? Surely we've got to look at these other schools.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh exactly, right, let's make sure everybody's sort of covered. You majored in theater, right? That was, you were a theater major right?
Stephanie Goss: Yeah. I doubled theater and music.
Dr. Andy Roark: Theater and music. Two highly practical, pragmatic majors that have delivered you to the place you are today.
Dr. Andy Roark: Making podcasts in your closet.
Stephanie Goss: They have, they have, I, uh, have that running joke with my, with my parents that I actually use, uh, the skillsets that I learned in dealing with people through the theater. I use it every single day.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, I, I, I, I'm joking here. I love you. The skills that my daughter is getting from doing theater design and production. I mean, she's 16 years old and knows how to tell people in a nice way to do their job. And you know what I mean? It's like, look, we're, we're on a deadline. Uh, she, my daughter, my 16 year old has more project management skills at age 16 than I had at age 36. I mean, she, again, she's running a program. There's a schedule. People need to be informed, motivated, cajoled, held accountable. I'm just like, this is again, I don't, the world is, the world is interesting. I've always been that way. I've never put a ton of stock in. What, you know, degrees people have or where they went to school or anything to me, it's, it's who are you and, you know, and what can you do and how do you treat people and how do you perform?
And it's, but as knowing that I sort of have that, that mindset, I. I love the theater program that she's been in just as far as the things that she's willing to do. I look at her skills and I'm like, that is so applicable. It really is project management. My 16 year old has got more project management experience than I had when I was 36.
And it's, um, it's just interesting. I think, I think people are, you know, misguided often in how they look at the value of education and what's, what's being, what's being, you know, what, what people are taking and where that takes them. Anyway…
Stephanie Goss: Well, it certainly shaped me as a manager in the sense of I've always looked at team members. I've always been biased towards team members that are from outside veterinary medicine, because the bias within veterinary medicine is towards people that come from veterinary medicine. And I, other managers have always said to me, but I want to hire somebody who has that experience.
And my response has always been, why? Like I, I I'm looking for the people skill set and the project management skill sets and the time management skill sets. And I don't really care if they've worked in vet practice. Like I, I can teach them how to do the vet stuff. I can't teach a lot of those skillsets, uh, not quickly anyways and so it's, it's interesting to me, like the, the way that, the way that people look at it. But, anyways, this is, this has been one of, one of those episodes.
This is, I feel like sometimes we could do a whole episode of the beginning of the show conversation. Uh, but there really actually is an episode hidden in here and it's, it's a good one speaking of personal life. So, we got a mailbag question from a, I'm going to assume that this is a manager, but, someone writing and saying that their boss, they, they've been having a lot of days where they're short on doctor's appointments. Which is bizarre but I recognize that some of our, colleagues are seeing that where they're not stacked to the gills and they've got, days where they're short. And so their boss, practice owner's response is to ask, techs if they want to take the day off if it's not pre filled or ask someone if they want to go home, if they get into the day and then it's slow in the afternoon, right?
And. This man, this person is struggling because they're like, well, but we still have the same amount of tech appointments and stuff that's getting stacked in between the normal appointments. We've got surgeries, we've got lunch break coverage, we've got drop offs, we've got hospitalized patients. Like their point is, there is other stuff beyond the actual appointments that are on the schedule.
And so they need an extra, they need help. And when the front desk team is calling for help, to discharge patients, to answer client questions, whatever, they're having to call the front desk back to help them now because they've sent extra bodies home from the back half of the hospital and the patient care team, and so they were like, you know, this is struggling because we're, it feels like we're always short staffed because we're choosing to send someone home, and when we have those days where we ask somebody if they don't want to come in because we don't have a lot of appointments, inevitably Murphy's Law, that is always the day that someone calls out, or someone has a stomach flu, or someone's kid is sick, right?
Because somebody is scheduled off. Now we're two people short and they're like, how do we keep this from happening? And also more importantly, maybe, how do we get our practice owner who's been here for 20 plus years to see that they are part of the problem and help us solve this problem?
Dr. Andy Roark: Yes, all right. This is a great one. I really enjoyed this. I think, uh, let's start with headspace. Let's start with headspace. So we're going to support this person and they are going to talk to the practice owner about this and they're kind of looking at the things that are happening. I'm going to start headspace with, uh, One of my absolute favorite lines that you guys have heard a million times.
If there's something that happens in your practice, that's a surprise. And it happens again and again, at some point, it's not a surprise. It's your business model, which means if you. Look at the calendar and go, that looks fine. I'm gonna send this technician home. Oh, no! Now we're overwhelmed. If that happens one time, it was a surprise.
If it happens every time you send a technician home. It's your business model. Like you send people home and then struggle and you do it again and again. And so, I gotta put that up front and you would think people would learn, but sometimes they don't learn. Anyway, we're taking, we're taking the writer's word for it here about what's happening, but
Stephanie Goss: I think that's where this person is, right, is like now, okay, this is the become the business model. So how do we help change this from being the business model? Because it's hurting us.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, I agree. And so, okay, so headspace for me, uh, you getting curious is going to be really important here.
Stephanie Goss: Yep.
Dr. Andy Roark: I think a lot of times people ask us and they say, what do I say to this person to get them to change their behavior? And the answer is nothing. What you do is you come up with the right questions to ask this person so that you can open the door to a good conversation.
And so from a headspace standpoint, I need you to get curious. I need you to wonder why. The practice owner, I don't know if it's she or he, but I, let's, uh, I don't, why is the practice owner sending these people home? What is, what is going into that decision? And let's be fair, and I will tell you as a practice owner, um, sometimes there are, there are parts of the math equation that are not public knowledge, you know, I, I don't, I don't know, this person may have reasons for sending people home or asking people if they want to go home that we haven't really explored or that we just don't know.
And so that's the first to understand, get, get curious right up front. And the other part of this, just as kind of a nice little bundled package of headspace to get started, you have to assume good intent. Do not assume the practice owner is stupid. Don't assume that she's stingy. Don't assume that she doesn't know that things can get dicey after she sends somebody home.
Assume that she is trying to do the best for the practice and for the people and she wants them to, uh, she wants the staff To be rested, you know, and to get some, some downtime, just go ahead and assume good intent on the part of this manager. And if you get curious and you assume good intent, I think you're going to already set yourself up to be more effective than you would otherwise be.
Stephanie Goss: And I think I have to be the one to be vulnerable and say, getting to that place where you assume good intent can be really hard. And so I want to recognize that because the story that we automatically tell in in general, and this is a big generalization, but in our industry, the story that we have narrated, that I have narrated, that I have heard my peers narrate over and over again, is that, um, we get paid way less than our practice owners take home.
They're worried about the bottom line. They want more money in their bank account and so they're going to choose to send people home and it doesn't matter what the consequences are to our team. That is a version of a story that I have heard repeated in people's heads over and over again, right? And so I think And, and it isn't, I like my practice owner.
And there were times where I thought that it's like, seriously, you can't see how hard we're working and you're still choosing to send people home because you want to save money on payroll like I that that has been a conversation that I have had with my peers And so I think it's important to recognize like when you say get curious and you say a good assume good intent that may take some work to get to that place for yourself and ask yourself different questions because it's really hard in the moment, especially when you're feeling overwhelmed and stressed out.
Patients are stacked up in the back. The front desk is, you know, busting their butts. The phone is ringing off the hook because nobody's at the front desk, because now they're back in the treatment room. In that moment is not that time to try and get curious or assume good intent. Like,
Dr. Andy Roark: Yes. I agree.
Stephanie Goss: You have got to get some space and some distance from that moment to really be able to do that work.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yes. Good call out. The time to have this conversation is not during the afternoon when the owner asked someone if they wanted to go home and now everybody's mad. Like that is the wrong time to have this conversation. The right time to have the conversation is three days after that happened. And everybody's kind of forgotten about it, but you have not forgotten about it because you wrote on your calendar that this conversation needs to happen.
I'm going to wait until I can sit next to this person and smile at them. And it's going to be on Thursday and you wrote it on your counter. So it's not fresh. It's we're going to talk when things are okay. No one has gone home. We're not, we're not struggling. All right.
I'm going to put this one forward because I want to, I want to, I want to put one in the column for the practice owner here and say headspace, are you sure that the rest of the team is bothered by this? Like, we make assumptions too of, well, the owner asked them and they wanted to go home, and then we were short handed, and then, I saw how busy everybody was.
Do you know that the team actually agree that people should not be asked if they want to go home, and wish that they weren't able to go home? Are you sure that that is the consensus statement of the team? And again, it's funny. I I have you know We've all been in places where we are the ones who get negatively impacted by a decision and we go God this decision is terrible.
I bet everybody hates it. And in reality everybody else is like This worked out pretty well for us. We have different needs than you do. We have a different perspective. Sometimes I imagine people are not going to like something and they and they tell me this is great. I love it. Are you sure? That you represent the feelings and the thoughts of the rest of the staff.
I would get sure. And just informally, but I would make sure that I was representing them before I went to the boss and said, I represent the staff and we are upset about this or we're feeling overwhelmed.
Stephanie Goss: I'm glad that you said that because I think that that is an important piece. And I think the other piece that's really important is recognizing that there is probably someone else on the team who is okay going home, who is like, I'll take an afternoon off without pay. Like I'd rather go get stuff done at my house or, you know, hang out with my kids or whatever.
Recognizing that, there may be other team members who don't share the same perspective and that that is okay. You can still have the conversation without it being unanimous. And so I think I have watched team members go down this rabbit hole of trying to convince everybody on the team to get on the same page as them because they want to have a conversation with their boss about the fact that they're feeling really overwhelmed because people are regularly getting sent home.
And then the team member who doesn't agree is like, well, I don't really care. Like, I'll take the time off. And then the practice owner just looks at that person is like, see, I've been validated end of conversation. Right? So I think part of that headspace is recognizing that other team members may not agree with you.
It is okay for everyone to have different opinions and your work to your point, Andy is this a consensus or is this something that maybe you're only feeling or two people are feeling or whatever? Because you can still have the conversation with your practice owner. It's just important that you frame it correctly in, in that you're not saying, well, the whole team feels this.
You can say, well, Andy and I were talking about this because we were both feeling overwhelmed. on Tuesday when we had a lot of patients and we had sent Sarah and Kate home, right? Like you can say it that way. You can frame it that way for your practice center, but it is important to know are you, what does that landscape look like with your team?
Dr. Andy Roark: Right. It doesn't have to be unanimous for you to go have the conversation, but you should, you should know where the rest of the team is or else you're going to get a bad surprise. Um, get into specifics. How often is this actually happening? How many tech appointments? Are we really talking about?
Because, again, it's, it's like the way we give feedback. If I bring someone in and say, look, you're always late. And they go, no, I'm not, I'm not always late. Now we're arguing about what always late means. This always happens. You know, this always, you let people go and then we always end up buried. No, I let people go quite a bit.
And one day out of six, we end up stressed for one hour. Like that. Those are different, different things. And again, I just want to try to remove the subjective part of this, of you do this thing and then everything turns bad. I go, okay, let's, let's try, let's, let's try to approach this objectively and say, how often does this happen?
How many appointments do we see the last time it happened? How many people showed up that we didn't expect? Like, try to put some numbers on this to convince me this is a real problem. Especially good, if you can look back the last three or four times it happened and say, this is a pattern and here it is now.
That doesn't mean you're probably gonna have to wait a little while before you have this conversation. I. I think that you are much better prepared if you have this information. Now you can decide for yourself how dire this is. The other part is when jump back real quick about, are you sure that others are bothered by this?
Stephanie, this reminds me of when we talk about, do you try to call people to come in on their day off if you're shorthanded and you and I've talked about that before and the, and what, what we've talked about is how different teams want different things. And some would rather work shorthanded. And know that they're not going to be called in on their day off then to not work shorthanded and have this call in the day off.
And so there is sort of, I just want to jump back to that real quick and say, people, um, people want different things and, uh, it's, we can't make assumptions about how they feel. About being asked if they want to go home when things are slow. So anyway, speak in specifics, collect your data, figure out how often is this really happening?
And then I think this is my last part for, for headspace. I think you need to set realistic expectations for yourself about what you think you're going to accomplish by talking to someone who's owned the practice for 20 years and has an established pattern of behavior. So this, this isn't a democracy and I don't know that you're going to be able to go in there and say, you need to stop doing this immediately forever and never do it again.
And I think that that's probably a bridge too far. Maybe not. Maybe they'll go for it. Maybe they'll be like, yep, you have convinced me as of now, this policy is in place and we are not going to do it anymore. I think that you should probably accept that you're going to need to try to influence and cajole a little bit here to try to get the best outcome.
This is probably not going to be an all or none situation. Perhaps the policy won't go away, but you could maybe convince the practice owner to use it more judiciously than he or she has in the past. Things like that. And so anyway, that's my last thing is I wouldn't go in guns blazing saying this needs to stop.
We need to add it to the handbook that this won't happen. I would go in curious. I would point out what's really happening and how the team is kind of being effective and try to be as objective as possible and then ask if we can modify this proposal or this protocol in a way that's not going to leave us in a tight spot as often as we have been in a tight spot in the past.
And I think that that's the head space that I would go in looking, looking at.
Stephanie Goss: I love that. I have thoughts about what could, what it could look like to frame that conversation. So let's take a break and then we'll come back and get into some action steps.
Dr. Andy Roark: Sure. Let's do it.
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Dr. Andy Roark: All right. So we're going to start getting into some action steps here. Is it your position, Stephanie, that it's always better to be slightly overstaffed? I mean, assuming you can make the numbers work. It's always better to be a little bit overstaffed. Do you agree with that?
Stephanie Goss: I mean, yes. My personal philosophy and how I ran my practice was to be overstaffed, And I think that's one of those things where I know that there's people out there who are listening right now and think I would never hire her. Why would you be overstaffed? I think it depends on what your definition of overstaffed is, because for most people, the definition of overstaff falls on the side of, you know, hi, have you heard the saying, uh, if you have time to lean, you have time to clean.
Dr. Andy Roark: I have.
Stephanie Goss: for me..
Dr. Andy Roark: I’ve heard it thrown around rather liberally at times in my career.
Stephanie Goss: For me, I want there to be time to lean because when there's time to lean is when we get to train. When we don't, when we get to learn and someone is not breathing down our neck because there's five patients waiting. When we get to work on the projects that improve our practice, when we get to ideate about what it could look like to be a part of our community and volunteer at the upcoming, you know, pet walk, whatever those things are.
For me, those have always happened and been most successful when we have been slightly over staffed by most people's definition. And so that is how, that is how I ran my practice. That's not to say there's a big difference between being quote unquote overstaffed and over budget. And those two things are very different, but a lot of people look at them the same way.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. Yeah. I, I agree. So anyway, I just want to sort of start with that. So yeah. Um, action steps before. So you've got a way of sort of framing the conversation before we do that. So I'm gonna put the first action step on. I mentioned this in headspace, gather your information. Gather your information. See if you can speak in specifics.
How often is it happening? What are we really talking about? Go ahead and do your homework. So it's just not like I feel stressed out and so you need to change this like no try to try to try to make your case make your argument Um, and that also includes, uh, you know getting into how does the rest of the staff actually feel about this all of those sorts of things you just want to gather your information so that when you have the conversation you you feel clear on what is the problem?
How big is the problem? How can I show you this problem is big. How do other people feel about the problem? All of those sorts of things. You're setting yourself up to be successful in this conversation. So the first thing is gather the information and then let's go have the conversation.
Stephanie Goss: What does the conversation look like?
Dr. Andy Roark: So for me, there's the two opening parts of the conversation I would say is keep the stakes low. Okay. Right? We're just, we're just talking. This is not a mutiny. This is not meant to make the boss feel dumb. It's not meant to make her feel like she's not managing the practice well. Like I said, we don't know what's going on here exactly.
Keep the stakes low. “Hey! I want to talk to you about something that's been happening and just kind of get your, I want to get your insight on it. And, and yeah, I want to, I want to get your insight kind of on one of the policies that we've been using” and just start low. It shouldn't be a big deal. I don't, again, I don't want the boss to feel called into the principal's office.
I don't want us to seem like I'm challenging the decision that she makes because it is sort of a challenge to the decision that she continues to make. I don't want it to seem that way. I just, I just want to understand what, walk me, walk me through this. I've been looking at our staffing. And thinking about how we do it and how we handle staffing during slow days.
And I just kind of want to understand where your head's at in that we have a policy where when we're slow, we ask people if they want to go home and we often end up feeling a bit squeezed after that person is gone. And so anyway, just try to keep the stakes low, things like that. and then lean into being curious, help me understand, how do you decide what days we should send somebody home?
What is, I guess, what's your thought process? And again, I have to think a little bit more about how exactly to frame this, but I really want to go in there curious, are you convinced that it's best for us to send people home? Is there a tell that you use? Is there a way you look at the calendar, the schedule?
And decide, hey, yeah, this looks like a time for people to go help me understand kind of what your metrics are and, and what your sort of decision making parameters kind of look like when you decide that.
Stephanie Goss: And I, I love that because I think it's, I think it's so hard because our, our human nature, especially if, like, assuming that you're a manager or technician in this practice and others are bothered by this, The human inclination is to go into the conversation and share the perspective. This is how this thing is happening.
And even if you're super clear, even if you're like, you know, on Thursday when you've sent Kate home because we were done with doctor's appointments, we still had all of this other stuff on the schedule. And so we wound up being super short staffed and we had to have, you know, Emma come from up front and come back and help us in in the treatment room.
And everybody was pretty overwhelmed at the end of the day, right? Like there's this natural human inclination to I was very clear and specific on Thursday when this thing happened. Here's what happened as a result of the decision that you made. Right. So I'm using clear communication to tell them those things.
It doesn't take away from that feeling of being on the spot. Even though I changed the language, even though I use the I statements and I didn't say, you know, like our human inclination is to say, this is what happened. Right. And we, collectively, are all feeling this, because it may be that everyone is feeling that.
But that kind of presentation is immediately, has the potential, not always, has the potential to immediately put the other person on the defense. And so I think one of the best tools that I have learned as a communicator is to use all of the, uh, I statements and to use the transformational vocabulary and be really intentional about what you're saying.
And to your point earlier, ask them to get curious. You, you got curious, you asked questions, but instead of presenting them what you learned as a result of your own curiosity, instead of challenging them on the decision that they're making, what could happen if you ask them, Hey, On Thursday, when this thing happened, this is how I felt, right?
And I had some conversation with some of my peers, and I think I understand how they feel. I would really love it if you would be willing to have a conversation. It doesn't have to be all together. Like you can talk to, you can talk to other people however you want, but I feel like this could be a challenge or a problem for more than just me.
And I would really love to have a conversation and feel like you have had the chance to ask some of the questions that I've had to, that I've been able to ask. Would you be willing to talk to some other people about this? If I was the boss. That ask feels radically different than, Hey, on Thursday you sent half the team home and we were super short staffed, can you stop doing that?
Or, or how can we figure out how to have you stop doing that, right? Like those two things feel very different to me.
Dr. Andy Roark: I know. I think you're spot on. So just sort of, let me formalize what you kind of said and put it, put this in this framework. I think that I was, I'll put it in the framework that I was building, but I think it fits right in. So gather information is part one. Keep the stakes low. This is not a big deal.
It's part two. Present the situation and the impact is part three. And again, it's, Hey, when this happens, this is, this is how it feels, or this is what it means, or this is the effect it sort of seems to have on the team. Ask the questions to understand. Help me understand kind of what do you think about that?
I mean, are you, how much do you love this policy and why do you love this policy? And I think those are, those are actually nice little low stakes questions. I think that that can get you something. So that's it. Present your proposed solution. What is the alternative to this? Is it not ever let anybody go home when we're slow?
Is it to only let people go home under certain circumstances? Is it to only let people go home knowing they might be called back in? I don't mean it's, do you have proposals here that you would like to see that you think the team would be on board so don't make proposals the team is going to hate because they're going to be like we hate it and the boss is going to Be like it was hers and point at you.
And so yeah, uh, that's it. Um invite input from the team if it is possible meaning this can be a good way to go to the team and say guys We're considering changing this policy. You guys are the ones who are affected. Do you want to be asked to go home or do you guys want guaranteed hours? Um, if we send people home, we can often get squeezed.
And if we don't send people home, then we tend to have some slow days and you guys are gonna have to busy yourself either training or cleaning or or doing other things that need to get done. What do you guys want to do? And again, the boss might not be open to that. And I think that this is an important part I kind of wanna come back around to is you want to be wary of steamrolling the boss and coming with the whole team to say, we don't like this policy. We want it changed that can create an adversarial feel, especially if the box, the, if the boss is really sweating the numbers, which, you know, Hey running a vet clinic is expensive. And trust me, payroll causes practice owners way more stress than people who have never been responsible for payroll tend to know.
And so this person could be really stressed and they are desperately trying to control costs. And then you roll in with an organized clinic team to say, we demand that this policy stop. There's better ways to do this. And so remember, the clinic is not a democracy. You've got a practice owner who's been there for 20 years.
You're going to need to try to work with this person and understand them and their needs. And remember, leadership is all about balance. And so anyway, I'm not going to say go in there and demand to have an open summit with the team to talk about what you want to do. That might be a good call. It might not be a good call, but it's something to think about.
And I would see how the practice owner feels? The practice owner might say, no, I would really like to hear from the team and what they think. I'm not sure. Open that door, but make sure you're not perceived as being the person who rolls in with the team and says, I'm taking over this decision. I'm taking it away from you because that can backfire.
Stephanie Goss: And I think some of how you do that lies in what you said earlier when you asked, you know, do you have a proposed solution to the challenge? And I think my suggestion, just from experiencing this exact scenario, was, um, It was much better received by trying to meet them in the middle and so trying to understand where they're coming from.
Are they concerned about payroll? Are they worried about the, um, you know, the team member? Are they trying to be concerned? You know, kind. Our human brains jump to, well, they're worried about payroll because that is a large concern. And they could be like, well, you know, I know that Sarah's in tech school and she's probably got homework and she, you know, has said that she'd be willing to go home if we're short staffed.
So the worst case is you, you have an owner who feels like they're doing a good thing for the team. And then you're questioning that decision that is immediately going to put them on the defense. And so I think figuring out what the proposed solutions could look like and trying to meet them in the middle.
And so getting curious, asking them where they're coming from. And then I would say, you know, is it possible to say, okay, let's just say they are worried about payroll. could we ask to meet in the middle? And could we say that instead of sending someone home as soon as we finish morning appointments, we keep the extra person until we get through the lunches and in an hour, can we get an extra hour of time where we are overstaffed technically, but now we're covering lunches, we're covering seeing the drop off patients, and then once we round up after everybody comes back from lunch, Then we send someone home, because then you're getting probably some of your needs met as a team, and the practice owner is feeling heard and getting their needs met when it comes to cutting people off the payroll for the whole afternoon when there's no doctor's appointments on the schedule.
Thinking about how to, what does that middle ground look like? You are much more likely to get met with less resistance, I think, if you're willing to not only be a part of the solution, but give. Right. Like in your perfect world, you would love to be overstaffed and have the body so that you can handle those days when someone is out, scheduled to be out.
And then somebody calls in sick, right? Like you would love to have that overstaffing level. And most of us don't, don't live in that world. We live in the gray in the middle. And so how do you get to that place yourself and how do you get your practice owner to that place?
Dr. Andy Roark: Yep. I, I completely agree. I think that that's a great example of sort of meeting the middle. And the last part that I would say just to make it more likely to go through is, is consider a trial phase. Say, Hey, could we try it this way for a couple of weeks and see how it goes? And that makes it even one click less scary.
And, uh, yeah, just agree on the amount of time for the trial. I think that that's, uh, all, all of that seems very reasonable to me. I can't imagine not getting heard if you don't approach it this way or approach it, yeah, using sort of the skills that we talked about in the, in the approaches, but yeah, I think that.
I think coming with your own solutions, asking for a trial. I think that those are ways I think to really grease the wheel and increase your chances of being successful.
Stephanie Goss: Hopefully this helps our, our tech who has to have this, conversation.DS
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, definitely. Fingers crossed.
Stephanie Goss: Yeah, this is a good one. Have a great week, everybody.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. Everybody take care of yourselves.
Stephanie Goss: Thanks so much for listening to this week's episode. We really enjoyed it and we hope you did as well. I just wanted to take a quick second and say, thank you to Nationwide, Hill's Pet Nutrition and Pet Desk for being our Anchor Club Sponsors for this year's Practice Owner Summit. And I also want to say thank you to the practice owners who are joining us this year in Atlanta, December 5th, through 7th. Thanks so much for joining us today. We'll see you next time!
