This week on the Uncharted Podcast, practice management geek Stephanie Goss has invited her friend and a shining light in vetmed in Dr. Molly McAllister to join her on the podcast. Molly leads the veterinary function of Mars Veterinary Health and is driven by her passion for preventive health and the development of future leaders in the veterinary profession. As chief medical officer, she ensures the culture, strategy, talent and tools are in place to consistently deliver excellence in high-quality medicine across the Mars Veterinary Health family of clinics. Her top priorities are continually advancing medical quality across Mars Veterinary Health, promoting inclusive health and well-being for veterinary professionals, and advancing a future for the veterinary profession that centers on the human-animal bond. Molly is also the board president for the newly formed Diversify Veterinary Medicine Coalition (DVMC), aiming to increase representation for Black, Indigenous and people of color in the veterinary industry. She serves as the board secretary for the Human Animal Bond Association and is a board member of Pet Peace of Mind, an organization that supports keeping hospice patients and their pets together as long as possible.
With her unique ability to touch a variety of groups in veterinary medicine through her current roles, Stephanie was excited to dive into conversation with Molly about her journey to where she sits now in veterinary medicine, her experience as a leader in corporate practice, and her passion for some issues that are at the forefront of conversation in veterinary medicine. Let's get into this…
You can also listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.
Do you have something that you would love Andy and Stephanie to roleplay on the podcast – a situation where you would love some examples of what someone else would say and how they would say it? If so, send us a message through the mailbag! We want to hear your challenges and would love to feature your scenario on the podcast.
Submit your questions here: unchartedvet.com/mailbag
Upcoming Events
COME TO GREENVILLE WITH US ONE LAST TIME BEFORE WE HEAD OUT INTO UNCHARTED WATERS!
The world is noisy. News. Content. Promotions. There are messages swirling all around us. In our inboxes, on our phones, on the radio, on the drive down the street. It’s message after message competing for our attention. And your business is caught in the current.
So how do you make sure your message is heard? How do you tell a story that gives your brand a unique voice? How do you connect with your community without simply shouting louder?
It’s time to drop anchor and stand out in a sea of noise. This April, we’re bringing big voices in veterinary medicine and beyond together at the Uncharted Veterinary Conference to discover how veterinary brands can rise above the surface. Get ready to learn, share, and make waves at your veterinary practice. REGISTER NOW TO JOIN US IN APRIL 2024 at Uncharted.
Upcoming events: unchartedvet.com/upcoming-events/
All Links: linktr.ee/UnchartedVet
Episode Transcript
Stephanie Goss:
Hey everybody, I am Stephanie Goss, and this is another episode of the Uncharted Podcast. This week's episode is going to take a slight detour off of our normal track in that I am joined by a very special guest today. I am joined by my friend and colleague, a wonderful human being who I'm super excited to get to share some of her with you all, and that is Dr. Molly McAllister. Molly is the Chief of Medical Officer for Mars Veterinary Health. And the reason that I asked Molly to join me on the podcast, there's so many, and obviously as you can tell, I have several fan girl moments during this episode, but I asked Molly to join me because I think that she's very inspiring and she's involved in a lot of things in veterinary medicine that are near and dear to my heart. And I thought it would be fun to share some of her journey and some of her thoughts and wisdom that she has gained over her career on her leadership journey with all of you.
And so if you listen to the podcast regularly, you heard Andy and I do an episode recently where we shared some of our leadership lessons and it inspired me to take a little bit of a detour when Andy is otherwise occupied and doing other things to share with you all and invite some of the people that I admire in veterinary medicine to come have some conversation with me and talk about their journey as leaders. And so this is one of those episodes and I'm hoping that you enjoy it. If you do, we'll bring some more of these to you in the future. Now let's get into it.
Speaker 2:
And now the Uncharted Podcast.
Stephanie Goss:
And we are back. Today is a little bit different as I said in our introduction. And I am very excited and very privileged to be joined by Dr. Molly McAllister. For those of you who don't know Molly, she is currently the newest Chief Medical Officer for Mars Veterinary Health. Molly and I met when she was the Chief Medical Officer at Banfield, and we had the opportunity to work on some projects together. And I am super excited for today's conversation. Molly, welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Thank you so much, Stephanie. I'm so excited to be here. I love listening to what you do, who you talk to, and I'm really honored to have the chance to spend the time with you.
Stephanie Goss:
Well, I am excited. We are going to get into some stuff today. And right off the bat for everyone, I'm going to ask kind of to talk about one of the obvious elephants in the room. And it's something that I've experienced too, and I know you have. So you work obviously in the biggest, I think of the big corporate medicine. And I know when I joined corporate medicine, I got a lot of questions and comments, and there's a perception sometimes in veterinary medicine that corporate hospitals is negative. It's really negative. And there's a whole lot of thoughts across the board. And I really had a great experience and I recognize that my experience is not the same and everybody has different experiences.
And I definitely had my own perception of Banfield when we started working together, and that is a radically different perception than I have now three years later. But it's part of why I wanted to talk to you because I think when I think of people that are leaders in veterinary medicine that I wanted to talk about, and Andy and I first started talking about doing this series and he was like, “I'll let you go rogue and talk to whoever you want,” and your name was at the top of my list because when I think about leaders in veterinary medicine that are passionate about people and culture and development and growing leaders, I don't know that there is a name that goes faster to the top of my list than yours because I have not had the opportunity or privilege to work with another leader at the level that you are working at who really truly cares about every single person that works under them from the people on your direct team to the assistants in the hospitals that you maybe only get to see once every two years, right?
They're not people that you're seeing every day, but you really truly care about the people and the development. And I think that that matters so much, and that's a big part of why I wanted to talk to you about your leadership journey because I think that it's not something that you get enough recognition or credit for in your role.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Thank you. It's interesting. So many things to say about this. And I guess I'll start by saying one of… So a little bit about my history. I won't go into a lot of-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
… but I'll just say that I was late to realizing that I wanted to go to veterinary school. I didn't actually make that decision until after I graduated from undergrad. I knew I wanted to be in animal health somehow, but it took me a while. And when I went to veterinary school, I didn't have a really clear vision of what I was going to do with my career. I had thoughts of everything from zoo medicine to equine medicine, conservation medicine, small animal practice. I mean, I really was open.
And the reason I say that is because as I went through school and had a lot of different experiences, and in my career, I've been in a variety of aspects of our industry, but what I noticed over time was that regardless of what we were passionate about or what we're passionate about, regardless of the focus of why we're in this profession, I want to be an equine vet, I want to take care of cows, I want to go back to my community and serve my community, I want to go be a famous radiologist, whatever the spectrum is, the reality is that I have not met a person in this profession who isn't here out of a sense of purpose and passion for what we do. And that goes on into today, veterinary professionals are amazing people. And I mean that from everybody who's spending a summer working in a veterinary hospital just as a part-time job to people who've devoted their life to nothing but veterinary medicine. We're here for passion and purpose.
And so when I think about corporate medicine and the reputation that it has, I take that bit of knowledge of who we are as people in the profession, and I apply that to the types of ways that we do business. And it's like a real disconnect for me to say, “Because people do their business in a certain way, that suddenly means they're not connected to the purpose, they're not connected to the passion.” And the reality is that when you go and talk to anybody, go to a conference, ask somebody why they do what they do, and ask them where they work, and why they do what they do will be very similar, and where they work will be very different. And so I see that in industry, I see that in corporate practice, I see that in private practice, equine, bovines, small animal, wildlife.
And so I guess what it all boils down to for me is that I understand some of that skepticism, I understand some of the fear, some of the concern about what does it look like when business people start running veterinary practices. I get it. And I think what we also have to remember though is that this is not a bunch of… We aren't people who get pushed around, we aren't people who get told what to do. We are professionals in our own right. And so I think you can look at it as, “Business people running veterinary practices,” or you could say it's business people partnering with veterinarians to try to create a sustainable business model and make sure that we can continue to provide care not just for the pets that we all care about, but for the people that are working in the veterinary hospital when we know that compensation is a real challenge for all of us, again, at all levels. We're not human healthcare professionals.
So I could go on and on, but what I'll say, I'll go back to that root of this is a great profession filled with great people. And regardless of where those people work or how the work gets done, I still think you have to come back to that why is so powerful, and I don't see corporate medicine taking away the why. So that's been my experience.
And then the other piece I'll just add on, just a teeny bit about Mars as a company, because I do think it's important to know that Mars is a family held business. And what is amazing is that Mars, everybody thinks… In fact, when I had my first interview, I said, “The candy company, the M&M stickers? What is this about pet care?” But the Mars family are animal fanatics. They are pet lovers through and through, and I have the chance to connect with various family members in the course of my career and over the course of year. I touch base with them. And when they ask me questions about the business, they don't ask me how much money we make, they don't ask me how many pets we're seeing, they ask me things like, “How are our people doing? Are we taking care of pets? Are we giving dogs longer lives? Are we making sure that cats get to the vet?” That's what they care about.
And so call it what you will, but I believe that they believe in the purpose of our profession, and I think as long as we're here for a purpose, that's a great why regardless of who you're and how you do the work.
Stephanie Goss:
So I don't want to [inaudible 00:09:29] with this episode for anybody who's like, “My gosh, they are talking all about corporate medicine.” That's not what today is about because it's just one piece of who you are and where you are in your career. And when I think about you, I think about development and leadership as I said, and I also think about diversity and I think about inclusion, which to some people may sound crazy because you and I are both white women. And I think that people are like, “Why would that matter?” And I see the work that you are doing and some of it on behalf of your company, and you have the privilege to be in a position to affect change there.
And I think that there's so many things when I sat down to think about what am I going to talk about with you, I was like, “There's so many things that I think of,” and the word passion comes to mind for you. Is there something that really truly feels like your passion project at this point in your career the way you're like… If you were to define the thing that you're most passionate about in veterinary medicine, and there are so many, and in your position as the medical officer, like chief medical officer, you could talk about medicine, there's a million things that you get to touch, but is there something that when you think about the heart of why you love coming to work every day, that stands out for you as your passion?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
I mean, if I was going to be unfair about this, I would just give it a big overarching title and then I tell you about all the things in it because it isn't any one thing. So this may not be fair to you, Stephanie, but I'll tell you. To me, there's a couple things that are really important to me. One is, just very personally, I have a 6-year-old daughter who wants to be a veterinarian, and I know many of us are in that position of children, siblings, friends. I want a profession that she could enter and I could feel great about that and she could have a successful thriving life as a veterinary professional. So that's a very close to home every single day kind of purpose.
But the other thing I would say is that over the course of my life, my career, I've had the chance to travel around the world, I've had the chance to live in different cultures, I've had the chance to interact with a lot of different people. And like many veterinary professionals, I see the impact that animals have on people, whether it's a part of their livelihood, whether it's companionship, and I think it goes without saying, that's been accentuated during the pandemic when people have really looked to pets to provide that sense of connection and companionship.
And so I would say what that means is providing people with access to veterinary care is critical, not just because pets should be healthy, but because it's about more than just what we do as veterinarians. It's about taking care of people, it's about taking care of communities. And it may sound cheesy, but I believe that pets make people better. And if we take care of pets and we take care of that relationship and the human animal bond, I do actually believe we can make the world a better place. So call me aspirational, but that's huge.
And so in that bucket, access to care is a huge passion for me. And I think one of the things I'm specifically focused on is around diversity and inclusion because the demographics of pet owners are changing, shifting, and broadening, which is fantastic. And we have a responsibility to be there for them in the way that is meaningful and that connects. And that means we need to be diverse and we need to bring a broad variety of personalities and looks and perspectives into veterinary clinics so that pet owners can find the right match. And it's funny, I remember… As you said, I'm a white woman, I've worked in a lot of clinic staffed fully by white staff. Even in those scenarios though, I mean, how many of us can relate to the fact of you might have four veterinarians in the clinic and you're going to have clients who gravitate towards one doctor or another, and to the point that it's in their record. You do not schedule them an appointment with Dr. Smith, but they'll only see Dr. Jones.
And so you expand that within the diversity that exists in our world and you say, “Why would it not make sense that we need to be a more diverse and inclusive profession so that we can take care of pets and the people that belong to them?” And so that is a passion project for me that plays out in a variety of ways. One of the things I'm really passionate about is being part of the board in founding the Diversified Veterinary Medicine Coalition who is aiming to advance BIPOC representation in our profession, but it's also about the youth awareness programs that are in place that Mars is sponsoring some of them, others I'm involved with that aren't affiliated with Mars. But just how do we make it so that any kid who has a love for pet and a consideration of wanting a career working with animals sees that as a possible path? So I could go on and on, but I'll stop there.
Stephanie Goss:
No, I love that so much, and I think that it's so important, and I think that it's one of the things that I appreciate about you is that your passion is so genuine. And just to have conversation with you and talk about it, you can feel your excitement and your enthusiasm. And I love it. And I think we need more of that in veterinary medicine because I think we're in this space where there is a lot wrong. And we started the episode to kind of talk about perceptions, and I think there's also some perception in veterinary medicine that we are broken and that we are such a hot mess that we, are ever going to be able to fix it? And we talk about the suicide epidemic in veterinary medicine and the mental health crisis. And everything can feel overwhelmingly negative when we get into that headspace, and yet, to your point, we have very underrepresented people of color in veterinary medicine, and just opportunity. I mean, the cost to go to vet school is enormous.
And so that presents right off the bat a huge barrier for people of all shapes and sizes in terms of entering our profession and it affects everybody from our technicians to our doctors. I'm still paying off school debt from having gone back to school to go through my technician program. So I feel that, and I think that I love the positive approach that you are bringing to that, and it's refreshing. I certainly appreciate it. Do you feel like… If you could think of one standout lesson that you wish that you had learned earlier in your career as a leader, because your career has just taken such a kind of wandering path and you've tried a bunch of different things. And so I know that you have learned a lot of lessons. Is there something that you wish that you had learned earlier on in your leadership career?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
So many things I wish I could go back to. Let me digress for just one moment, which is when you talk about the perception of our profession. And one of the things I learned recently, it was from a 2020 study that Banfield commissioned with Lincoln Memorial University, and they surveyed BIPOC students, middle school, and high school students about their interest in animal health and veterinary medicine. What they found is that amongst different… Well, they actually looked at broader demographics. Amongst demographics, the interest of veterinary medicine is pretty equivalent as kids are in middle school. As they go through their high school years, that is where the disparity grows tremendously.
And when they actually surveyed students to find out why that was, what they found is that white students drop off, decide not to pursue veterinary medicine because they are concerned about their ability to tolerate the rigors of the educational demands, they're worried about their ability to deal with the sadness of the profession. Those are the kinds of things that deter white students from going to veterinary school. For black students, the number one deterrent is that they are counseled by an advisor, a mentor, a parent, a leader that this is not a career path that they should pursue. And that's oftentimes due to the financial burden as well as the perception that we're a very white profession.
Stephanie Goss:
white profession.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
And I'll get back your other question, but I think that that's important because the way we talk about what we do and who we talk about it to has a real impact not just today, but on future generations. And so being really intentional.
And so I'm going to go to one of the leadership lessons that I wish I would've remembered or learned earlier, I should say, and it's a life lesson, it's to find the gratitude in every day. It doesn't mean that things can't be really hard. We all have hard days and I have had plenty of them. But to find that little spark of gratitude to say, “It was a really challenging day, but don't forget that you made Mrs. Jones smile,” or, “You took some emotional burden off of Mr. Smith.” I heard you on a podcast a couple of months ago talking about the joy that a puppy that's so ugly, that it's so adorable can bring you during the day. And-
Stephanie Goss:
Very true.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
I wish that I had learned that earlier because when I think about some of the times that I went through, challenges with burnout, it was really about not being able to connect with those moments. I also wish that from starting from an earlier point in time that I thought about talking about those meaningful moments, the moments I'm grateful for more intentionally. And I do believe in the power of positivity, and I don't want to say that as a Pollyanna by any means. We do have a lot of challenges, but I do believe that when you talk just about the challenges, it self-perpetuates. And when you talk about the positives, they can self-perpetuate.
And I think there's an opportunity for us to just remember that there are a lot of hard things we have to tackle and we also can't forget about the heart lifting things that happen every day in veterinary clinics that fill our buckets, and we need that for ourselves for sure. And I think we need to help others recognize that there are bright spots even in hard days in this profession. And I say that very carefully. I don't want to diminish the challenges by any means.
Stephanie Goss:
No, I love that so much. And I think you're speaking the Uncharted love language. And I think that's the number one thing that people say when they think of Uncharted is that they have heard that it's a positive community, and I think that that is at the heart of what our whole team does. And particularly for myself and for Andy, as you know, it is so important to recognize that we do have challenges in our profession and challenges can be overcome, they can be walked around. Sometimes we sit at something and we just think that this is insurmountable and there's no way to get around this. And yet even the things that really hurt my heart, the mental health challenges, losing colleagues to suicide. When you said the statistic about BIPOC students, that hurts my heart that an adult that they care about would discourage them from pursuing a career that they show passion for because of the barriers. That hurts.
And at the same time, I choose not to believe that those are insurmountable challenges and that we can't affect change. It may be slow and it may be so painfully slow that we want to scream some days, but that doesn't mean that we can't affect the change. And so that's one of the things that I really admire about you and the work that you're doing and kind of the outlook that you bring.
I want to go to something that you said because it's something else that I have wondered about. You are one of those people that I look at and I think, “This woman is an energizer bunny,” because you talked about manifesting positivity. And one of the ways that I see you do that that I really admire is that you share yourself sometimes quite candidly on social media and you post about your work and your passion for what you're doing and your life and your kids and the belief that you have that you want to leave a legacy for your daughter in veterinary medicine, which I think is so admirable and certainly resonates with me as a parent. How do you manage your time and balance? Because holy cow woman. I look at your post and I'm like, “Does she ever sleep?” Because you're doing so much.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And I think that that's a challenge that affects a lot of us in veterinary medicine, but I think it affects in particular parents in veterinary medicine because we go to work and we work so hard and we give it all to our teams and our patients, and then we go home and we still have to give it all to our families. And it is a significant challenge, and I see you sharing that in the good and the bad openly on social media. How do you balance all of that and find time to share things and do social and run and have the life that you have? I say that and recognizing that it's hard, right? And that's one of the things that I appreciate is that you're honest about when it doesn't work and when things kind of feel like they're falling apart.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
I mean, to start it all off, I'll say one of the reasons I do post that on social media is one of the life lessons I've learned, the leadership lessons is that like it or not, when you start leading people, you become a role model. And that's not just because you are placed in a position of leadership. When you are the senior person in a practice, when you're mentoring people, I mean, we're all leaders in our own right and we all have some opportunity to role model. And the last couple of roles that I've been in, I've recognized that I do have an opportunity to role model and to carve out what I think should be the expectations for working parents, for working moms, for people in the workforce.
And going back to just briefly, I'll say another thing I really believe about corporations is that they're the people that make them up. I mean, yes, they have a vision, they have policies, but at the end of the day, they're the culture that the people within them lead. And so I view my role in shaping culture as critically important, and I've always actually felt that way, not just because I'm the chief medical officer, but somewhere along the way, it was instilled in me that you are part of a community and you shape that community. So all of that is to say one of the reasons that I do post as much personally as I do professionally is because I think it's important for people to see that we're whole people and we must be whole people regardless of the level of position that you're in. So I think I learned well through trauma. And so-
Stephanie Goss:
Fair.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
No, I've gone through some really challenging times where I didn't know what the path forward would look like, I didn't know how I would get up out of bed the next day and keep going. And that's hit me a few different times in life, I think it has for many people. And what I eventually have pieced together from those events is that if I do not take care of myself, I cannot do the things I'm passionate about and I cannot take care of the people who depend on me. And that became even more apparent as a parent, but it's not exclusive to parents. I have a team that depends on me, I have a community that depends on me, I have a business that depends on me. I have to take care of myself if I want to make the world a better place, which at the end of the day, as cliche as it sounds, that's what I want to do.
And so that idea of having to really be clear about defining some boundaries and saying, “I'm going to do this,” and that has been something… I mean, that has been a lesson. I still learn that lesson. I still say, “Should I go to that exercise class because I really should probably prep for that meeting.” I mean, this was yesterday morning, I was like, “I should probably be prepping. But no, if I don't take that hour and go to the exercise class, what is that going to feel like to me?” So I mean, it is a day-to-day conversation that I have in my little brain about what to prioritize. But in doing it consistently, I've developed that routine and I see how the routine helps me. And I'm not a machine. That routine gets broken and then I'm aware of, “When I'm not doing the things that take care of me, I don't show up as my best self.” So I think that's been really critical.
And then there's another important part of that, which is that I've had to learn to say no. And I've had to learn that I can focus on a critical few priorities, but I can't be everything to everyone. It's about 10 years ago, I was exposed to a woman and I think the title of her book was In Order to Be Great, You Have to Be Bad, or something like, her name is Frances Frei if anyone's interested in reading about it. But her concept is basically if you want to be great at something, you have to be bad at other things, otherwise you suffer from exhaustive mediocrity. You're trying to do everything and you can't do it well. And so again, it's taken me a while to learn to get comfortable with saying no. Frankly, I'm not comfortable. I hate to say no, but to have the internal conversation with myself, Molly-
Stephanie Goss:
Yeah.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
… you're going to have to say no to this because you can't make that happen if you're also trying to do these other three things that are either not your priorities or they're lower priorities, or there's something somebody else thinks you should do. And I'm grateful that I've grown in that way. And it's still a daily process of saying, “What's really important for today? What's really important for what I want in the long term? And how do I make that play out today?” And some days I suck at it and some days I feel really good about it.
Stephanie Goss:
I love that you shared that. It does not surprise me that you shared in the candid way that you did because you just are authentic in it. And I think that's another thing that resonates with me as who I am as part of Uncharted. And I will share that when I first started working with you and the team at Banfield was shortly after the pandemic, and I learned a very powerful lesson from kind of the culture at Banfield, and the area chiefs of staff is who Andy and I have been working with. And I tell them this regularly and share my gratitude with them because I never learned that lesson, I don't think, in private practice.
And it's funny because I was in the position of leading a practice and being a part owner in a practice and getting to call the shots. And you would think that when you are in that position that if you want to take time to recharge or you want to be in charge of your own schedule, you would think that that would be the case. And yet, private practice owners and leaders and managers are the worst about taking care of themselves in whole as a generalization. And it has profoundly impacted my life on both a personal and professional level to see the culture that your team really led by example, which was saying no, and also having boundaries when it comes to taking care of yourself so that you can take care of other people.
And I was horrible about taking time off and scheduling the things, and I would literally be like, “I have to do this thing with the kids. Well, I'll take the time from the schedule, go do the thing with the kids and then I'll come back and do three more hours of work.” That was how I lived my life because I thought that I was living in that place of mediocrity of a lot of things because I was not saying no, and I was trying to be all the things to all of the people. And Andy and I have talked candidly on the podcast about some of our personal experiences with burnout and getting to that place of just overwhelm and exhaustion where it's like, “I don't want to get out of bed today and I don't want to go to work and I don't have the emotional capacity to have excitement or energy even for the cute puppy or kitten. I just don't care and I don't want to be here.”
And I really struggled with that because I love what we do and I love to go to work. And that for me was always like a wake-up call, “Hi, if you're not already talking to your therapist, it's time to take your ass to therapy because this is not a good sign.” But it's one of the lessons that they taught me because you guys really walk your talk about taking time off, taking care of yourselves, having boundaries, and I love that you say that no one's perfect at it. And I love the area chiefs are like, “Really…” We were just having a meeting with them actually, and one of them was like, “I was going to turn off my phone because I'm on vacation, but I literally just answered it.” We were just recognizing, “Okay.” “And I did the thing that I said I wasn't going to do and now I'm going to turn it off, and now I'm going to enjoy the rest of my vacation.” And I'm like, “Why are you even talking to us if you're on vacation. Go.”
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Because you guys are amazing. No, I'm with you. And I think the important piece, I mean, that's a great example. Sometimes it means saying no to something you really actually would like to do or someone you want to spend time with. I mean, that's been the hardest thing for me is it's not about do I want to or don't I want to, it's been about having to really sit down and be clear with myself, “What are my top priorities? And is this one of my top priorities?” And sometimes having that really hard conversation, and I do believe no is a full sentence. And when it's somebody I love or something I'm passionate about having to say, “This isn't the time. Can I connect you with somebody else?” Sometimes it's, “No, and let me see if I can help in a different way.” But I do think that… And that's been important to me because it would break my heart to just say, no, no, no, no, no-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
… and not [inaudible 00:33:33] go forward, but sometimes it's, “No, not me.” I mean, going back to leadership, it's also been a great lesson to realize sometimes my team is hoping that I'll give them the chance or they're looking for a chance to develop and take something on. And I think I get into that mindset of-
Stephanie Goss:
Yes.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
“… I'm the only one who can do this. They're asking me. I'm so busy. I don't have time.” And that's all I think about as opposed to, “I can get this done in a creative way.” And just because somebody asks for help, it doesn't mean that they want me to-
Stephanie Goss:
To do their thing.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
“And so what about, Molly, using some of these life lessons and thinking creatively about how to provide help if need be?” But also, you can't help absolutely everybody who reaches out unfortunately.
Stephanie Goss:
I love that. Do you think that there's something that is kind of a commonly held belief or perception about veterinary medicine that you disagree with?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
That's a great question. Let me think about this for a minute.
Stephanie Goss:
My goodness. We had such a great time in Greenville recently for our Practice Leaders Summit, and a few huge announcements came out of that. Number one, registration is now open for our April event. And I know what you're thinking, “April is really far away, Stephanie.” However, if you've been thinking about coming to join us in Greenville for an event for some time and you haven't pulled the trigger, you're going to want to do it this time because in 2024, we are having a last hurrah at our home in Greenville. The WESTIN-Poinsett is a beautiful venue. It's right downtown Greenville, which is an amazingly walkable, fun place that is filled with food and drinks and shopping. And believe me when I say that our members have a great time at the conference and they also get out and have a great time in Greenville. And the WESTIN is amazing and we have been there for years and it's time to take our show on the road.
And so while we will be coming back to Greenville and to the WESTIN in the future, we are doing our April conference in Greenville, and then we are going to be heading out on the road. We have our Practice Owner Summit in the back half of December next year, so 2024. We're going to be out on the road somewhere. We've got some road shows that are going to be happening. So there are going to be lots of traveling Uncharted events coming in 2024 and 2025. So if you've been thinking about coming to Greenville and you haven't pulled the trigger, now is your chance.
And the other big announcement that we made at Practice Leaders Summit was the fact that our Uncharted members have a huge new perk. That's right. There is something happening for community members that when you sign up for a membership, which is $699 for 12 months, you are now getting access to something that costs the general public $499. So for a tiny difference, you get 12 months of access to our community, you get discounts on events like the April conference, you get membership, you get workshops, you get conversation, you get parties and events, all kinds of amazing stuff. There has never been a better time to become an Uncharted member than right now, and I don't want you to miss it. So head on over to unchartedvet.com/membership and check out all of the amazing benefits. Sign up because we want to see you in Greenville in April 2024. And now, back to the podcast.
Do you think that there's something that is kind of a commonly held belief or perception about veterinary medicine that you disagree with?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
What comes to mind for me is I think that… Well, I'm going to have to formulate this into something a bit more eloquent, but it goes back to you can be a great veterinarian in all the ways of providing compassion and nurturing and being there for people, and you can have boundaries. And I don't know if that's a stated myth, but I sense that as a myth for a lot of folks in our clinics is that if you create boundaries, you're not taking care of that pet to your greatest ability, you're not taking care of that client, you're not serving their needs. And I don't believe that to be true. And maybe this falls a little bit into my geeky. I believe population health is a thing I love. It's not just about taking care of one person and their pet, it's about all the people who need us and how can we maximize our reach? And if we don't create the boundaries, you get sucked into…
I've never said this before, but kind of what it comes to is you can get sucked into diminishing returns. You continue to be there and provide help and provide the empathy and provide the counseling and you're not getting the same return for that that you would if you invested that energy into the next person who needs a little bit of your time. And this isn't just about, “Go out and save the world and see all the pets.” It's not that. It's just about, again, create the boundaries and you can be the best version of yourself for the next client who needs you and the next day that you work in the clinic.
And I think that is a sentiment that… I wish somebody had said that to me explicitly as a veterinary student because I think we're all here for… Passion can be a curse sometimes because that passion can draw you into going beyond your own means. And I think that we need to be more explicit about teaching. I think teaching young veterinary professionals that it's okay to close that door to say thank you and not solve all the problems in the world.
Stephanie Goss:
I love that so much. Do you think that there is something that you wish that your younger self… If you could go back and talk to Molly, the vet student, is there a lesson or something that you would tell her knowing how far you've come in your journey and where you are now?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Yes, and number one… There's probably a long list. Again, all the things that I wish I could… all the knowledge-
Stephanie Goss:
Hindsight is a very good teacher.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
And I know myself 20 years from now, I'll be saying the same thing for myself today. But I think the number one thing would be it's okay to ask for help. And I feel like so many of us, and I'll own it myself, I came into this profession feeling like I've gotten this degree, I have this knowledge, I now need to be the veterinarian, I need to solve the problem. And I'll tell you a personal story that really has had a lot of impact on my life, this little thing. One of the small animal hospitals that I worked at as I went to work there, they were transitioning from 30 minute appointments to 15 minute appointments. And I was actually in Israel. I was coming from equine medicine where I'd just been out in a truck. You weren't trying-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
… to see 20 pets a day, you were just, “How fast could you get through traffic to get to-
Stephanie Goss:
Right.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
… the next appointment?” So I was making the transition to small animal medicine, I was getting my feet underneath me with 30 minute appointments. And then they made the decision for a variety of reasonable reasons, “We're going to go to 15 minute appointments.” And I really struggled. I mean, I realize now I didn't know how to make that shift. And so a week or two into it, the practice manager sat me down and said, “Molly, the staff are concerned. They think that you're intentionally going slow, you're keeping people late.” I walked away from that conversation now feeling very much like, “You aren't doing this and everybody around you says you're not doing it. And you need to fix this or else.”
And number one, nobody had ever questioned my work ethic in my entire life. That's essentially what it was. They were like, “You're intentionally going slow because you don't like the shorter appointments.” I remember going home from work that day and just breaking down into tears. And what I didn't realize at the time was that I didn't know how to do it. What I felt was like, “They're just being so mean to me,” and I didn't realize that I just needed to ask for help.
Stephanie Goss:
Right. You internalized that.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
We didn't have any other workflow changes, there wasn't help in the exam room to get help taking a history, we were still working on paper records. So it was like coming out of the exam room trying to write things down as fast as I could. So I was just trying to solve it by working harder. I didn't have the tools and knowledge to do that. And I think about if I had just stopped and said, “Can someone help me do this?” How could that have played out in a totally different way? And it's okay with the way it played out because I believe that things happen and they take you to a path you didn't plan for. But if I had just stopped to say, “Can someone help me figure this out?” And I've gotten better, I still have opportunities, I still walk around thinking, “I can do this. I got this.”
But sometimes I think some of the most powerful help you can ask for is when you don't realize you need it. That sounds weird to say, but it's like when it's glaringly obvious that you don't know what to do, yes, of course, you ask for help, but I think there's times that you think, “I can probably figure this out. I can power my way through this.” And those are the times where you actually have to stop and say, “Maybe there's somebody around me who could do this better or help me think about this differently.” And there's this whole concept of taking more intentional pauses in my life that I really need to embody because I think it's really good to not just get rolling down the road, and I do have a tendency to do that. So anyway. So there we go back to I wish I had known that it was okay to ask for help.
Stephanie Goss:
Well, and I think that goes back to something that you said earlier about when you ask for help as a leader or just as a person. You have no way of knowing what opportunity you're creating for other people to step up in your life. And I mean that not just in our practices, but in our lives in general, especially as a leader being a business and leadership podcast. When you say, “Hey, I could use some help with this,” you are absolutely creating opportunities for other people on your team to step up and step forward. And maybe they're demonstrating talents that you already knew that they had, but it's also an opportunity to uncover new talents. And I think what you said is so true is that we're so conditioned. I think a lot of it has to do with, I think in veterinary medicine, the educational system and the way that we kind of learn to think that we have to have all the answers and we have to know all of the things and that we're doing something wrong if we can't handle it on our own.
And I think that we're probably doing something wrong if we do think that we can handle everything on our own, because I mean, it's really like you go to vet school… It's one of the things that I struggle with vet school in terms of the expectation for our new grads and young students coming out is like, “You've gone to school and yes, you've learned so many things, but how well versed in any one of those things could you be when the curriculum breadth is so broad? And if you had said somebody was studying their one species for four years and maybe the breadth of their knowledge would be more detailed at that point in time. But you guys are just jamming so much into your brains.”
In vet school, and it's not just similar in tech school, the broadness of our profession, you're trying to equip people in the same time span to handle something in zebras, in zoo medicine. They may never go into zoo medicine, but you have to have some level of knowledge there. And it's really something, I think, that we're conditioned. It helps condition us, I think, anyways, to think as a profession that we have to have all the answers. And I love that you said that about taking the intentional pauses, because I think that's a really powerful tool for all of us as leaders to remember in terms of creating that opportunity.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
And what you just said, I mean, it just struck me. We are trained to think that we should be everything to everyone or that we should be able to be everything to everyone to some degree. And that is not a recipe for success in life or happiness or joy. And so I think there's a real opportunity for us hopefully influence academia, but also culturally just change that so people realize, “It's okay to pause, it's okay to ask for help, and actually it probably is going to get you a better outcome.”
Stephanie Goss:
Absolutely. I mean, and it's as small as doing it, I think, with our own team, but also recognizing like, “It's okay to do that with our clients.” One of the first things I tell my team is, “If you get asked a question by a client and you don't know the answer, do not try and bullshit them and come up with something on your own. Just tell them, ‘That's a great question. Let me find out a really great answer for you. And I'm going to call you back. I'm going to circle back.'” Whatever it is. It's okay to say you don't know. And it doesn't matter whether it's your first day. I mean, we set them up that way in training to say, “I'm brand new. I don't actually know the answer to that.” But I've been in veterinary medicine now over 20 years, I still say that when I'm in the clinic sometimes, “That's actually a great question. I have no idea. I'll check with the rest of the team and I'm going to call you back.” It's okay to say, “I don't know.”
And I think that that's a lesson I think we all could benefit from giving pause to and recognizing not only from the perspective of taking that burden off of ourself in terms of feeling we have to have all of the answers, but also in terms of creating space for the people around us to step in and step up to help us. Like you said, in that space, what could have happened if you had asked that practice manager, “Hey, I don't know how to do that. Help me”?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Yeah.
Stephanie Goss:
And maybe it would've still gone the same way that it did, but maybe it wouldn't, and you don't know if you don't ask. Part of why I wanted to have you on the podcast was because you are someone that I look up to in veterinary medicine, and I know for a fact how many people look up to you as a mentor or as a role model in veterinary medicine. Who is someone that you consider a mentor or a role model for you in veterinary medicine and why? What stands out about them in your mind?
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Well, and I think what I've learned over time is I have so many different mentors and role models that model certain things that I'm interested in. So I'll tell you, and this may sound cheesy, but one of the people I look forward to calling when I have thoughts and questions is our friend Andy Roark. And I don't-
Stephanie Goss:
Don't tell him that. You're just going to make somebody even bigger than it already is.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
But I think the why is important. I think one of the things I look for are people who have some breadth of perspective, who are willing to be curious, and who at the end of the day can find a positive tilt. And that's one of the things that I love about Andy. I think that another one is Janet Donlin. She's an amazing woman. When I look at her career and the diversity of roles that she has held, and the role that she's in today… I mean, my role isn't easy. Her role is definitely not easy in what she does. And I think her grace with how she manages the tension and opportunity in the role that she has is something that I admire. And I'd say another one who I love to connect with is Eleanor Green, and she's someone with the feistiness and the motivation and the drive. I mean, if I leave a conversation with Eleanor not wanting to go do something, make something happen, there's something off. So there would be three people that I'd throw out there.
And I think what I love in our profession is that there's so many great, creative, innovative, thoughtful people really wanting to bring the positivity in our profession to life. And so as much as I named those three, thinking about people who I think of as, you said mentor, but I'll equally say that I probably get mentorship from younger members of our profession even more frequently. And there are some great brains out there. Niccole Bruno is somebody I love to connect with, and her passion for culture and practices and what we can do to advance them. I mean, there's a whole multitude of people that I've gotten to work with. And I'd say I'm grateful for the pandemic because people that I've gotten to meet virtually that I might not have met otherwise.
And so anyway. I'm so inspired. It goes back to we have a lot of challenges in our profession, we have a lot of things that we have to improve, we have some really great brains, we have some really great motivated people, and I think we can do a lot when we all work together. And whether it's organized veterinary medicine, whether it's corporations coming together, or whether it's just individuals coming together to say, “We want to make this different.” We don't know the power and potential that we have. And I believe that is something we're going to really get to lean into in the next few years. We're building a profession for a whole different face of veterinary medicine, and that is a really cool opportunity.
Stephanie Goss:
There's no better place for us to end than there, because I love that answer so much. And I agree with you, and I think about everybody that you named, and I also think about when you said the younger profession, and I'm at that stage in my career where I feel old a lot. I just had a conversation last night about feeling like, “I don't understand TikTok. It's a thing.” And I was like, “Someone's going to have to give me lessons, but I'm not above learning.” And one of the things that I love is seeing the younger faces of veterinary medicine, and I see it. It is bright and it is diverse and it is inclusive. And I feel that way about just the younger generation in our world kind of as a whole. And when I see the change makers, and it is inspiring to me.
And I think that there's a lot of people that look at it apathetically sometimes at the younger generation because the people think about things differently than prior generations. But that's always been the case. Our parents thought that about their parents, who thought that about their parents. And so I agree with you. The future of veterinary medicine is very bright, and I am very excited about all of the change. Molly, thank you so much for joining me today. This has been truly so much fun. I have really enjoyed you sharing yourself and your time with me and with the podcast. This has been fun.
Dr. Molly McAllister:
Thank you so much for the chance to do it. I knew I love connecting with you, but this has been even more fun to have a conversation like this, and I just really appreciate the opportunity. And I love what the Uncharted culture is, and I'm so glad to see you bringing it to life in such a variety of ways.
Stephanie Goss:
All right. Thank you. Take care everybody. Have a fantastic rest of your week and we'll see you back next time. And that's a wrap on another episode of the Uncharted podcast. I really enjoyed this conversation today with Dr. Molly McAllister. And if you enjoyed it, please let us know on social media. I would love to be able to do more episodes like this. Then we would love to hear your thoughts as we try some different things heading into the new year here. So let us know what you think. And if you love the podcast in general and you've not given us a review, we would love it if you would head over to wherever you obtain your podcast from and leave us a review. That's the best way to let us know what you're thinking about the podcast. Take care everybody, and we'll see you next time.
