Change can be scary to vet teams and getting their buy-in takes great skill. In this episode of the Uncharted Veterinary Podcast, Dr. Andy Roark is joined by Dr. Jules Benson to discuss strategies for change management in veterinary practices. Dr. Benson brings over a decade of executive experience in the pet health insurance industry and a rich background in clinical practice and veterinary innovation. Together, they explore how veterinary teams can implement new tools to enhance communication with pet owners and improve the overall client experience.
Dr. Benson shares his insights into using data and technology to transform veterinary practices, drawing from his expertise in strategic planning and leadership. The conversation focuses on gaining team buy-in, fostering trust, and motivating staff with purpose-driven initiatives. They emphasize the importance of patience, persistence, and positive reinforcement when leading change. Dr. Roark also reflects on his personal leadership evolution and the challenges of managing change in a way that resonates with veterinary teams. Throughout the discussion, they provide practical steps for setting clear expectations, tracking success, and creating a supportive culture. Let's get into this episode!
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Episode Transcript
Dr. Andy Roark: Hey, everybody, I am Dr. Andy Roark and this is the Uncharted podcast. Guys, I am here today with my buddy, Dr. Jules Benson. Um, Jules is a veterinarian. He's a really funny and interesting guy. I lay down more of his, uh, credentials here in a moment. He's someone that I talk to whenever I can. Uh, he's one of my favorite people to sort of chat with and kick ideas back and forth with and we are talking about change management in practice today and I'm using the Pet HealthZone by Nationwide as an example.
I'll lay down what that means and kind of why, why we do that, but I think that you guys are going to really enjoy this. So I always feel like when we talk about things like change management, it's really nice to have a specific example that we're talking about so that we can sort of grab on and present a specific example.
Specifics and um, and really sort of articulate what what we're trying to get across in a way that's not just completely theoretical and so Jules and I do that with the Pet HealthZone® today and we get into talking about uh, introducing ideas in a way that don't get shot down and the team buys in and rolls forward with them. So it's a great conversation.
Uh change management is something people always ask me about I was really glad to be able to break this down with him. I'm also really glad we get to talk about the Pet HealthZone® a lot. If you're not familiar with Pet HealthZone® It's a really cool website and uh, and we talked through what it is and and and why why we both like it and why we talk about it when we talk about change management.
So anyway, that's coming up I think you're going to really enjoy it. This episode is made possible ad free by Nationwide. Gang, let's get into this episode
And we are back, it's me, Dr. Andy Roark, and the one and only Dr. Jules Benson. Uh,
Jules Benson: You bring the, you bring the energy because you know I can't match it. Like it's just, you go full force with the energy.
Dr. Andy Roark: This is where you're supposed to giggle like Stephanie Goss. There you go, that's what we're looking for. That’s excellent, know your role, Dr. Jules Benson! That's it.
Jules Benson: I'm a giggler at heart really.
Dr. Andy Roark: For those who don't know Jules, he is a dear friend of mine, a longtime friend.
He is the chief veterinary officer at Nationwide. He and I have been working together on a variety of projects. We actually both sit on the Mentor V et advisory board is a recent thing that I took on and have gotten to work with you on and we've just been reminiscing about the past and talking about travel coming up.
But Jules, I have a question from our mailbag that I wanted to break down with you. Are you ready?
Dr. Jules Benson: Yes.
Dr. Andy Roark: All right, cool. So let me say I gotta get a little bit of backstory here for the listeners All right, so when stephanie goss and I work with people in person One of our favorite things to do is to have challenges for them And so they're essentially case studies and we like to bring them And so what we've been doing to work on people who want to learn change management recently is, we bring them together, we round table them, and then we show them the Pet HealthZone®, which is an initiative that Nationwide has put out, is a genuinely very, very cool product that is free to use.
And pet owners really like it and I see a lot of value in it And so but most practices don't either don't really know about it or they're not leveraging it And so it is a cool thing that I can say to people and say look at this, internalize it figure out how it would work in your practice. And then let's make a plan on how we get the team to buy into using this. And so let me pause right there for a second and hand it over to you for people who haven't seen a Pet HealthZone®. I'll put a link in the show notes.
It is a hundred percent worth 10 minutes of your time To jump on and just play with it. It's just a Cool online site, but Jules, explain it for people who haven't seen it, please.
Jules Benson: Yeah. So it's a basically a Nationwide, you know, we, we sit, but one of the great things we do is we send a lot of data. So when we get claims, like we know what those claims are for, which is, it's just unlike some of the data you get in your practice, right? If you wanted to look at all the pancreatitis visits you'd have.
In the practice, it's kind of hard to do that because you don't type your visits that way. So we have all those data, and one of the things I've always been kind of really focused on is how do we use those data to inform better decision making. Um, and so we built the Pet HealthZone®, which is really a way to look at pets by breed and by life stage.
to see what are the risks for that pet. So we've got, we've, the core of it is the medicalized risk, like based on our data, what are the highest risks for your pet and what are the things that you can and should do about it, um, both from a prevention point of view. And if you're sitting in the office, Hey, you know, if I have a 10 year old Rottweiler, Let me see what might be likely or high risk for this.
And of course you've got things like osteosarcoma, bone cancer. And so just preparing, um, the conversation that, that, that might happen in the exam room around, you know, Hey, we might want to take some x-rays of this limping dog just because they're at such high risk for this condition. So, Um, increasing the trust, increasing the education, um, and so that was the, that was the goal of thePet HealthZone®
It's like, how can we create a resource that is, that increases the efficiency and the effectiveness of veterinary teams?
Dr. Andy Roark: So I'll say, I'll put a link in the intranet for people to see it. What I always like to do is take it to practice leaders and say to them, all right, look at this thing and look around and then think about how your team would use it and then. Imagine for a moment that you wanted to introduce the Pet HealthZone® to your team and have them say okay. We will review this with every new pet owner that comes in every new pet coming in We're going to pop it open.
We're going to show the pet owner. We're going to say hey your dog is a Frenchie and Let's just take a quick review here of the common health problems in Frenchies, and then it's not you telling them hey, you need to look out for back problems. We need to look out for brachycephalic syndrome, things like that.
Um, they're, they're there and they're looking at the data. And I think that that can be a valuable tool for setting down expectations about preventative care and why we're going to make these recommendations and things like that
Jules Benson: And building trust.
Dr. Andy Roark: and building trust.
Jules Benson: to your point, like if you're not being the bad guy with, you know, telling, you know, every Cavalier owner that it's going to, you know, enter, you know, valvular heart disease in its middle years, I think that builds a trust of like, you're, you're reinforcing what, you know, when we talk about adherence with like, and it's getting more and more important just with the value proposition with pet owners. Like the, the, you know, we know that costs are going up. We know that it's becoming more of a focus. Trust is still the greatest currency that we have with pet owners.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. Well, it's, I think it gives you the opportunity to make recommendations that feel very customized to the individual patient. And again, I think more and more pet owners are looking for that, right? In a world with limited trust and a pile of information coming at them, everybody wants to hear specifically, what should I do about my pet and why?
And so I, I like, I like it a lot. I think it makes a lot of sense. The mailbag question that, that I want to tie into this is, um, how do I get my team to buy into. proposed changes. And so we always use this as sort of the example. So we have something tangible to talk about. But Jules, I wanted to go ahead and just kind of work through it with you sort of at a high level and we can use getting the team to buy into, you know, talking about Pet HealthZone® and showing, showing it to pet owners, um, as a, as sort of our, our case study when we talk about headspace, right?
So I'm the leader in this practice. I'm a practice owner, medical director, practice manager. I've got a change and we'll use the Pet HealthZone® as, as sort of the case in point. Um, What do I need to do to start getting the team bought in? And so we always start sort of with headspace. Where do you try to get your head when you're going to talk to your team?
You've got a new idea. You don't know how they're going to react yet, but you're setting yourself up for success. What does that look like?
Jules Benson: Well, I mean, from my marketing background, like everything's a pitch, right? See, I think you've got to have your own headspace and the position of like, what am I trying to tell the team and why, what is the value proposition to them? Like, what is the, what is the benefit that you see from it? And then take that up a level and just say, and for the practice of this, but you've got to make it meaningful for them.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, I think without a doubt, so I had it sort of on my list, uh, for sure, um, uh, motivators, right? So, so two big ones for me is pain and purpose, meaning what problem does this thing you're introducing, what does it, what problem does it solve for them? And so, jumping to the Pet Health, uh, Zone, people always say, well, it, they're, they're not.
Um, Trying to educate pet owners is something that most people think they're doing a good job of and they're not generally going Boy, we need something else to talk to pet owners about and so it's hard to find a pain point I think they're the other one is purpose. And so in these cases you say guys, what are we?
What are we trying to accomplish here? The truth that I find is in sort of this case Everybody wants to believe they're doing a good job of educating pet owners and they're advocating effectively for pets And so those would be the things I roll around on my mind regardless of what I'm going to try to take to the team You What's the pain?
What's the purpose? And so I'm going to look at them. What does my team care about? What are they going to be motivated by or potentially motivated by? What problem does this solve for them? So I always, I always think we start with that. To your point about everything is a pitch and sort of the way we talk about it as um, I think, I think it's sort of a cultural moment.
Honestly, I think it's the way the industry is changing. Never before have I seen so many teams that seem cynical about top down initiatives meaning there's there's kind of good not every team and please I don't want people to feel like I'm dunking on their team I'm really not but I think that there is a probably warranted skepticism from a lot of that practices of what is this?
Is this really just trying to fatten the bottom line? Is this trying to get me to sell more stuff? And I think a lot of that comes from news covers the industry is getting I think there's just there's been a lot of factors that have been coming up. I think I think Pet owners are becoming more price sensitive.
And so there's some kind of pushes on that. And so they're really going convince me, this isn't about making profits for stakeholders. And I, I, so I really think that we need to lean into that. I think, I think going to the team and saying, this is going to help us increase the revenue we're generating from our wellness visits.
I, I think that's a terrible approach. I think it's probably demotivating as opposed to motivating.
Jules Benson: Yeah, I mean, and I think, I think there's both pain points and promoters. I mean, I would say that, like, I mean, for the pain points to me, communication is still a pain point, like, whenever I'm in the practice and you're, you're in the practice much more than I am these days, but, and you are a communication specialist, like, as you observe people having conversations.
Like, I think it's still hard to have, not even difficult conversations, but regular conversations, and like, and trying to take some of that pain, not even, you're right, pain isn't the right word, it's not even discomfort, it's just, it's something you have to do, you know, going back to that Cavelier, that Frenchie, like, You know that you're going to have some tough conversations with that pet family at some point and everything you can do prior to that.
I mean, what do they say? We have to hear something seven times before it comes lodged in our heads type thing? Like, every conversation you have, uh, or every piece of information they can absorb prior to you having to give them information about a diagnostic plan or a treatment plan or whatever else. So I, I, I split the difference on, on kind of pain and purpose.
Purpose is the word you, sorry. Like they think we all want, you know, the, we don't get into this industry because we want to make a zillion dollars, right? We get into it because we think we can help pets and people. Um, and I think anytime that, that I see an opportunity to, I think take that lift, take that weight off somebody or lift some of that load off of our pet families and educate them in a way that I know is going to be meaningful and effective.
But I think you're right about the cynicism. Like a lot of the stuff, if you look at the materials, a lot of materials that we have produced or that we give out, like a lot of them is like, hey, here's this new thing. And it's great, but it's also super expensive. And I mean, one of the things that we, we love about this, about Pet HealthZone® is that yes, of course we would love people to have more people to have, you know, nationwide insurance, but there's no sales pitch in the processes.
It's like, this is it's, it's the medicalized stuff. Cause I think one of the things that, um, and you know, Jamie on our team, one of the things that Jamie said early on was like, it's going to delight people. And so, there's a lot of fun stuff in there about where's the, where's the breed from, and what are the attributes, and how much hair do you have to vacuum up, and, and, wacky pet name stuff.
So I think that's important in education, because I think so much of the hardcore education turns parents off. Like, we know now that, like, that's a, that's a hard thing to do, is to, is to find something that is meaningful to them, and at the same time gives them useful and accurate information.
Dr. Andy Roark: I think I think you're spot on. I like the idea of framing up around about around trust as a pain point to, I think there's a lot there to the point about it being sort of delightful or fun. I think that that's I think that's very true. I think the reason that we use this in our case studies, when we roll it out, it's because people can immediately, they immediately see what it is and, um, and you get in there and you tinker around with it.
And it is fun and it is interesting. And so I, I think one of the, one of the things in this case is in a headspace perspective, oftentimes, I, I think getting genuinely curious about what the staff thinks is a good mental place to start out with. And so, you know, in, in this case, you know, when you say, I would have something like this, I would show it to them and not, not in a formal way and in a very low stakes way, but just sort of be like, what do you think about this?
Um, you know, and you'll see them sort of look up their own pets and stuff, but, but I really want to get some feedback. I think whenever you're trying to make change in your practice, you really want to avoid trying to cram anything down the staff's throat. Like really, I think that's another part of the headspace for me is just go ahead and brace yourself to be patient and decide that you're going to be persistent.
Earlier in my career, I was big into these grand gestures of, I'll show these guys this thing and I'll make this big speech and I'll get the team fired up. I'll do the pitch and then everybody will, and as it's gone on, I've recognized how rarely that works. I can still explain to them why I'm excited about it.
I think that's really what I think that's really what worked for me throughout a lot of my career is I generally present things to my team that I'm excited about, and I'm very comfortable telling you why I'm excited about and how I see this potentially being really good. And I believe it. And so I wouldn't I wouldn't bring it up if I didn't.
And so I think that goes a long way. But I think if I can just brace myself and say, Hey, change is always hard. There's always going to be people who are going to have questions. They're going to have reserves. I think a lot of people get demotivated when the team doesn't jump up like, you know, the soldiers in Braveheart and charge the battlefield.
Like it's probably not gonna happen. Just set yourself up to be patient and go, we're going to talk about this a little bit. I'm going to get curious. I'm not, I'm going to listen to what they say and kind of what they think and see what opportunities they see. And I'm going to be persistent. Like we're going to continue to march on and talk about this and apply pressure.
But I- a mistake that I made early on was expecting the team to be much more open and embracing of change than I found that they actually are.
Jules Benson: And I think part of the changes, what's the cost benefit analysis. Right? So I think you've got something like this, which is like, you're not really asking. I mean, that was one of the things that we were very careful about. I was like, are we asking veterinary healthcare teams to take more time to do something and we're not, we're saying like, Hey, this is something you can, you can put it in front of desk and put in front of the office and it should actually.
Should actually decrease the amount of time you have to spend talking about certain things and, or it should make for more pointed conversations in some cases. But I think when you think about a PIMS migration or something like those are necessary changes that you have to do, but it's such an investment, everyone's time and energy that like the, the, the, the benefit at the end of it has to be enormous.
Right. And you, and, or you just have to say, this is something we have to do and there's no choice about this. But I think when there's a discretionary change, I think It's much easier if you can say like, this is how it fits into our work, and it's literally, it's either going to save you time, which we have to be very careful about, because if it doesn't save time, then there's a blowback on that, or it has to be something that fits in smoothly, and or you're going to adjust their workload based on this change,
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. No, I think you're right. Even, even if you have something that you is a mandatory change when you're like, this has got to happen. It's amazing how often I've seen leaders, managers, medical directors who have been like, look, it's got to happen. I'm just going to tell them it's got to happen and they'll get on board.
And I'm like, you should still soft walk this. Like you should be clear. Like I said, we really don't have an option here. But you should still try to engage with them as much as possible. And one of my favorite sayings, uh, Dr. Dave Nichol would say this, and I, I picked it up. I use it all the time. It's just such a, he's such an insightful saying, but
Jules Benson: Is it a Scottish saying?
Dr. Andy Roark: It is, I can't, um, I guess it's a, yeah, my Scottish accent is terrible.
Impact is the quality of the idea times the buy in as is.
Jules Benson: I can see why you didn't do the Braveheart thing,
Dr. Andy Roark: I know. I, it's, it's, it's, accents are not my strong suit. I love you, Dave. Um, Impact equals the quality of the idea times the buy-in. Meaning, you have a great idea, and you get zero buy in, and the impact is going to be, is going to be zero. The willingness to take the time, and talk to the team about what they want and what value they see and how things could be used by them.
They might not be up for what you're entirely up for. You know what I mean? They might say we really see this being, I don't know, with first time pet owners and you want it to be in every visit or whatever. There can be real value to say well the staff wouldn't do it exactly like I would do it, but they're bought into their idea and so we're going to try it their way and again that's another thing I learned over time of just I will take their idea which seems to be a B or a B plus idea to me and be okay letting go of my what seems to be an A or A plus idea the one that I like that um, I, I found I get a lot farther if I just get on board with the idea that they have bought into than if I keep trying to convince them of a better way.
Jules Benson: When did Andy Roark realize that? Like, are you so early in your like, has this been 20 years ago that you've been like, No, the A plus idea is the idea, and we're gonna do it. Like, how long did it take for you to realize that?
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, this was like seven years ago. This is like seven or eight years ago. Well, it was only it was only when I really had a direct team that I was responsible for right. I had to get to a place in my career where I was stroking the checks And also I had people who straight up worked for me and they felt comfortable enough to just tell me to my face.
I don't think I don't want to do this I'm not i'm not on board with this but like for
Jules Benson: We haven't processed their faces. Cause usually, you know, veterinary healthcare teams are pretty good about telling us with their faces, if not their mouths, how they feel about something.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh totally well before before I was the boss I always naively assumed that if I was the boss, then people would listen to me. And like so so all this got that's exactly what happened is I always thought if I was the boss they would do what I said or they would they they would take
Jules Benson: This boss has dumb ideas, but if I was the boss, like my good ideas, they would take because they're good ideas and I'm the boss.
Dr. Andy Roark: Exactly! I thought that. I thought that for a long time. And then I became the boss and then that's when, like a baseball bat to the head, I was made aware of my mistake. Like, that was, that was not true. And that's when I was like, oh, okay. This is, this is not going to happen. I, yeah, I just, I naively held onto that for way too long.
But yeah, I, I just, I'm trying to save anyone the hardship of figuring that out for themselves is you think that people would listen to you and take your ideas if you were the boss and I'm just here to tell you it's not, it's not true.
Jules Benson: That's not true. And they shouldn't like, honestly, if we have the kind of relationship that we, that we want with our teams. There should be a discussion about it. Like, you know, here's my thought, here's how I see the payoff. Here's how I see the end benefit of this. I mean, we are just, I mean, as much as we may be leaders, like it is still just one perspective and maybe we're, we're waiting in favor of our, of what we believe is our experience, the nuanced perspective.
But I mean, my, my experience is almost always that the team has good additions or better modifications or whatever
Dr. Andy Roark: Did I ever tell you my general patent, Kermit the Frog? Leadership revelation. Oh, okay. So, okay. So you're spot on. Let's get, I'll just unpack this a little bit more. This is a big deal for me when I was going through it. I always thought that a good leader look like General Patton, right? Like some military commander who would walk in and say, guys, we got to go.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we, we got to go to war and people are like, sir. Yes, sir. You know what I mean? And, and like, I thought that if you were a good leader and you took, and you genuinely cared about your people and you took care of them, that at some point they would just trust you. Like they would just be like, Hey, he knows what he's doing.
Like, I'm, let's just get on board with it. And I, that's what I thought. And what I came to realize is that's not true. And the more that your people trust you, the more comfortable they are saying to you, I don't think that's a good idea. I don't, I don't want to do that. You know?
Jules Benson: They’ll call foul much more frequently.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yes! Like, they, They are more likely to push back against you rather than less likely.
Like, and that's when I sort of came to realize like a lot of that, you know, that style of leadership where people don't push back is it's just this fear based leadership. And it's, it's, it might get things done.
Jules Benson: worse, right, I think to a degree, like, there's just like, we'll do, we'll do what he says, just because, like, and that, to your point around buy in, that's even worse in many
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, they're like, I'm cashing in check. That's fine. Like this, I don't care. It's just a job. Exactly right. The, the leader that most resonates with me today is Kermit the Frog. And like, there has never been an idea that Kermit has presented to his team, that they have just been like, sure, let's do it. Like there's always seven different viewpoints, but it's because they're totally comfortable saying to him, but what about this?
And we should do that. And, and they know that they'll be heard. And so even though being Kermit the Frog seems ridiculously frustrating. I truly believe that that's what it looks like and kind of feels like to be a leader that people like, and that they trust, and that they will speak candidly to. And so I really think that practice often feels like the Muppet Show.
And that doesn't mean you're doing it wrong. I think if there's silence and people go, sure, whatever, I think that's much worse than having some of the chaos in the Muppet Show. Do you buy that? Now that I've given you this whole pitch, do you buy, do you buy, do you buy this?
Jules Benson: So, I have some recent experience in this. So, my wife and I just, uh, rewatched the episode where Prince visits the Muppet Show. And it's ama Like, people haven't watched that. It's so good. Like, Prince is so amazing. But, I feel like an aside. I feel like Kermit gets beaten up a lot. And I And I think that's right.
I think, um, that, I don't know if I would call Kermit's style that servant leadership that's become kind of like the accepted kind of leadership method, but like, certainly there's a lot of give and take there. Um, and maybe it's even hard to know. He's Kermit in charge some of the time, right? And I do feel like, true leadership probably feels like that a lot.
And, and, you know, we, we do, we do our best to ensure that we are leading the team from the front, maybe that's the general pattern style, but at the same time, ensuring that, you know, ultimately we are responsible, um, for how the team performs and how they feel. And that's a two way street. Yeah. That's, uh, I think, I think we could, we could polish it.
I think I wouldn't take it out on the, on stage yet, you know, maybe we can, we can, we can, we can workshop it a little
Dr. Andy Roark: It's better when I do it. It's better when I have slides. It's okay. Alright, so, let's do some action steps here. We've talked a little bit about sort of getting buy-in, um, we've talked about being open to feedback from the team, we've talked about being curious, we've talked about values and pain points and all those sorts of things.
When you actually get down to the rubber meets the road, Jules, and you're like, alright, taking this forward with the team, what are the first sort of action steps that you kind of put into place?
Jules Benson: I think, I think for me, how we measure in success, like, you know, I think anything has to get a ladder up to like, what are our success metrics? How are we solving these pain points? Or, you know, having this kind of purpose behind it? So I think we've done that high level, but for each of the, you know, the kind of the team members, like, you know, what does success look like?
You know, is it X percent of people who are doing this or how are we changing the conversations we're having? So for me, there's definitely something about if you, if you can measure it, you can manage it. Right. I mean,
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah. No, I was at the exact same thing. I had, uh, go ahead and figure out your metrics and what done looks like. And so how are you going, how are you going to track and see if people are doing it? A lot of times we just say, well, we're just going to tell them and then we'll see how it goes. And we don't know what they're doing or saying in the rooms.
And then kind of the, you know, the wheels kind of fall off. And over time, it just sort of disappears. What, what can we do to try to measure, try to measure in this case in, in the case of Pet HealthZone®, how do I measure if my people are talking about it? Like what sort of mechanisms do I have to, to sort of track this or track compliance?
And I would, I just sort of get my head around it. And also to your point, what is, what does, what does success look like? You know, is it, is it a hundred percent compliance? Is it, is it 80%? Kind of, where am I trying to get? Um, and so, I don't know. I, I think, I think having that perspective of what Don looks like is pretty important.
I think a lot of times we just, we don't have any idea of what we're really hoping for.
Jules Benson: I think one of the benefits of digital tools like this is that you actually do have the opportunity to measure this on the back end. So if you're working, you know, with, you know, someone from nationwide or someone from wherever, and using a digital tool, one of the questions is like, Hey, can we measure how we're doing here?
Like, is there, is there, is there a way we can do that? So I think that's one of the first things. And then secondly, I think it's like. What is the quality of conversation we're looking to change? Or what is the, what is the way in which we want people to act around this? And so, we're saying we want every um, first time pet parent or every new pet to be able to come in and be able to have high quality conversations about the things that we think will be important from a health point of view.
And of course we have, you know, the wellness side of things as well, but making sure that, Hey, you know, we want that Frenchiona, we want that Rottweiler, et cetera, et cetera, having those quality conversations. I think this does become more of a qualitative measure. I think it becomes, hey, every, every week or two weeks, we're going to spend five minutes and just get feedback on this.
How is this going? Are you finding this clunky? Are you finding, you know, it's smoother if you say this, just getting that kind of group feedback on like, well, I think, and there's always someone who's like really good at it. And I think just the learnings you take from that, and they will bring their own positive elements to it.
Like, I've been able to get, I think, almost everybody to do this, and when I do, I find X, Y, and Z happens. And so I think, to me, like, especially for a program like this, having the team do it collaboratively is super important.
Dr. Andy Roark: I, I, I agree with that. I put, um, I put safety as one of the things that I'm looking for and what I mean is, whenever we introduce change, there's often people who just panic. They imagine that you're going to make a change, it's not going to work, and they're never going to be able to stop doing it.
As if, as if the practice would march forward, doing something that irritates everyone, helps no one, and would just not stop. But, I have, I have found that. It is really helpful to say people, to say to people, we're going to try this. We're going from now until the end of the year, we are going to do this.
And I really liked your check ins along the way. We're going to do check-ins. We're going to touch base every two weeks and see how things are going, but that helps you keep it top of mind. to keep talking to people about it, to keep reminding them about it. They feel like they have a voice. And then also if you say to them, we're going to do this till the end of the year, and then we're going to reassess and we're going to see how everybody feels and decide if we're going to keep going with it.
I've found that that reduces a lot of the resistance. It takes a certain person to be like, I refuse to try this, uh, for, you know, for six weeks.
Jules Benson: Yeah. And I think that's right. And again, I think the it depends on the program you have. I think for something like this where you do have it, and I wouldn't say it's softer, I think there are measures around efficiency and things that you can roll into this, but I think for initial rollout, it's got to be something that the team believes in and believes serves that purpose to your point.
Like, I think with everything, whether that's with this or whether it's heartworm control or anything else, the team has to feel that there's a net benefit to either the team or to the, to the pet family or preferably both. And I think that's, that's what we're looking for with this is like, can we, can we quantitatively or qualitatively measure how this is going?
And so I think when you've got hard statistics around, we solve this much X, Y versus, Hey, we feel there's a definite change in how people are coming to the exam room after they've been looking at the Pet HealthZone®, because they ask really good questions. And they're really pointed about future diagnostics or treatments or whatever else, right?
So I think you can, you can start to really measure the effect that it's having and the, and the overall benefit or lack of benefit. Again, like we shouldn't do all the things that we say we're going to do. And we know there will be, I think, embracing failure and understanding why it failed is, is, I know we all say this, and we, of course, we all want things to be successful, but being gracious and analytical about failure is so important.
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh, well I think that's how you keep trust with your team, right? If you can't back down and go, It didn't, it didn't work, you know, we're gonna, we're gonna change up here. Yeah, I hear you guys. We're gonna make adjustments. I feel like you're gonna lose that trust that you have with your, with your team.
Yeah, I um, I think it's important to, to, to, to identify your champions. Whenever you're trying to introduce something new into the team, there are going to be some people who get on the Pet HealthZone®, and they play with it, and they love it. They're like, this is great, I love, you know, they've got, they've got 36 pets, and they're like, oh, this is, I didn't realize this about this breed, and, and things like that.
But there are going to be people who really, they really like it. Those are the people we want to work with, you know, preferentially.
Jules Benson: I think the, one of the reasons we're talking about this is because like Goss was one of those people, like, I think, you know, it's, it's, I think it's one of those things where you really do have to spend five minutes looking through it. Cause I think it's, it's easy at a high level to say, Hey, it's this super cool, like 20 million plus years of data going into this, but it's so abstract.
And so I think you get into it and you say, like, Oh my god, I can actually see how I can have better conversations with people. And so I, so I just wanted to like, I would say like Goss is like, she's, she's obviously, you know, super smart and super analytical, but I think just the, the excitement she had and being the champion around this, like even, even I think when we launched it at, I think it was NAVC, sorry, VMX as it is now.
Um, this is how old I am now that I still can't get NAVC versus VMX out of my head. Um, Like, Goss was one of the first ones to say, like, we really need to get deeper into this, because I, because he automatically became a champion. So, totally identify with that, with your
Dr. Andy Roark: yeah, so she's, um, you're right. She, she, she immediately saw it and liked it and was like, she's the one who came to me and was like, We should use this for change management. This is a cool tool and people are not using it yet. It's brand new. Let's start talking to them about it because they'll see the value in it immediately.
And then we can use this as a case in point to do change management. So you're right. But, um, I think, I think whenever you, whenever you roll stuff out to the team, if no one steps up and goes, I particularly like this, like you should be, should be mindful of that. But, um, yeah, I, I think.
Jules Benson: probably got, probably, he probably, he probably got some of that, I would
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, probably, probably, probably got some of that.
There's, um, I've, I've, I've, I've been like, Anytime you're trying to push things always from top down, it gets old. What we really want to do is identify some people inside the team, inside the pair of professionals, you know, who go, okay, I'm on board with this. And again, even if, even if some people want to cross their arms, they don't want to participate, we can work with the people who are excited for, and as Pilot program, generate some results, generate some of the good feelings, start to be able to generate, um, I don't know the experiences.
So we can say to them, Hey, this is what we're seeing. This is what we're accomplishing. And you can kind of win people over, but if, if you don't identify those champions and kind of work with them, I think you're always going to kind of feel like you're on the outside. And then that sort of ties into my last thing, which is, um, go hard on the positive reinforcement.
Whenever you ask your team to make a change for, you know, that that's a sacrifice that they're making and reward the behavior that you want to see. Tell people you appreciate them being willing to go along with what you're doing.
Jules Benson: Even if you think it's for them. Like, even if it's something that's to benefit the team and to help save their time. You're absolutely right. Like, the change is hard. Like, change is so, it's not corrosive because I think it is like, you know, the, the idiom is the, the only constant is change, but it's, it's hard.
It takes mental energy and it takes time. Um, and you're right. I think that, you know, we know, we know from our, our updated dog training that positive reinforcement is the only thing that works. Like, that's the only real thing that drives that behavior change and that gets that, you get that person out of bed in the morning doing the things they need to do.
Dr. Andy Roark: It's, it's always going to be easy to fall back to old, old habits. Yeah. Even if the new way is better, it's just sometimes people just, they want to just do the old thing and fall back. And so, yeah, I think, I think keeping, keeping pushing them forward and, and patting them on the back. It's a whole lot easier to celebrate people than it is to, you know, try to punish your way to a better tomorrow.
Jules Benson: I totally agree. I was just, like, I really enjoyed your pun them on the back. And, you know, pun
Dr. Andy Roark: Oh yeah, yeah, that's exactly, that's exactly what I was going for. Yeah.
Jules Benson: yeah, we'll try.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, that's what we're doing. Dr. Jules Benson, have you got any final words of wisdom on change management before we wrap up?
Jules Benson: No, I think just to repeat changes. It's unbelievable how hard change can be. And I think, um, I think everything you touched on here today, Andy is like, it certainly has been my experience of the best way to get things done. I think just, um, especially the positive reinforcement, especially in the buying of the team.
Um, those things are critical. And I think just, um, Just acknowledging that, that changes, uh, changes is something that the teams are being asked to do so much on a, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, um, that, that, you know, having a process for that, uh, celebrating success, all those things are just so crucially important.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yeah, I think you're spot on. And related to that, I think the last thing from me is, do not allow yourself to mentally take an adversarial position to the team. It is really easy to get frustrated and say, why won't you guys do this? Why, I, why won't you get on board? Aren't you grateful for whatever we've done?
Like this flaming, raging sort of justice. Exactly right! Like, can't you see I'm trying to make your lives better? And, like, that is a toxic headspace. You, you have to resist that. You have to believe your team is, uh, made up of good people who are doing their best. And there's a lot being asked of them. And Try to understand them, try to be supportive of them and forgiving of them and also be persistent about where we need to go and just as patient as you can be while continuing to kind of push and march forward.
So anyway, that's it from me, guys.
Jules Benson: That comes from the top.
Dr. Andy Roark: Yes, absolutely. Guys. Thanks for being here. Dr. Jules Benson. Thank you for being here. Gang. Take care of yourselves. Everybody will talk to you later on.
Jules Benson: Thanks, Andy.
Dr. Andy Roark: And that's it. That's what I got for you guys. Thanks for being here. Thanks for uh, hanging out with me and Jules guys I hope you get a chance to take a look at the Pet HealthZone®. It is definitely worth your time Stephanie goss will be back on our next episode and we will see you then. Take care everybody.
I'll talk to you later.
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